Declined Upgrading to VSH2 (1 Viewer)

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Fuck that if you mix vsh and ff2 I can almost certainly guarantee that half the vsh players will quit. Please don’t fucking do that ff2 is so unfun for players that don’t want to face bullshit hales. Please don’t please please please don’t do that.
 
I don't believe this will go active on VSH EU but rather VSH US. Past changes to 'new and updated' plugins have been rather un-reliable and once a tf2 update comes they break. Not to say that this will but Panda Community has a laid back rare updates so even with help from the originally plugin creator, if something goes wrong, it'll stay wrong for a while. Possible leaving of lots of regulars unhappy with the update and then a dead server.

No multi bosses by the way. That's one of the main complaints that us ff2 got updated and though fun at first ends up annoying and chaotic. A lot of sitting around waiting for either boss to kill each other.
Except that your first argument is moot by two points:
1. the fact that VSH2 is in very active development
2. VSH2 uses as little dependencies as possible, so even if a TF2 update rolls out, it has a reduced chance of breaking. Not to mention that optional dependencies can break without VSH2 losing functionality.

Secondly, multibosses can be freely disabled from its respective cvar, so it's not an issue that even needed to be brought up. If it's annoying and/or chaotic, just turn it off from the cvar.
 
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1. the fact that VSH2 is in very active development
To be clear its not about you but about Kevin.
Because if you look at the suggestions list more closely, you'll see that many many suggestions are atleast a couple months old (heck some even years) and when something goes wrong it will also probably take a long time to update. Long enough to make people leave the servers simply of how unfun/unbalanced it would be.
While i absoluetly hated to read what Madact had to say, I eventually understood that it was the most logical and safest route to go through
 
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The main issue with VSH2 is that you need to learn sourcepawn to create custom hales, which is fine but the VSH/FF2 playerbase is pretty small and only about 1% of folks actually have the time and mental resolve to learn to code. What will probably happen is that folks who want to create custom hales for VSH2 will just copy from other custom VSH2 hales, change the models, maybe tweak a few numbers and release. So the cookie cutter methodology of FF2 remains, except with even more complexity, though I definitely see the benefits of having the hale plugins somewhat embedded into the hale files themselves.

I do not know if VSH2 will get enough traction to sustain itself with willing coders, though I hope am wrong. Nice to see your helping that by taking in requests yourself however.

Voting no, would rather have the VSH community and FF2 community merged, with the panda FF2 server having a more recent version and larger player cap. This schism needs to end.
If it's more complexity, then how would it have the cookie cutter methodology of FF2?
FF2's cookie cutter methodology is because it's nearly impossible to have a boss with custom mechanics, the most custom mechanics you can have is from rage which is really limiting if you think about it.

Here is an example of a boss I created using VSH2 - The Trolldier aka _STAR

Trolldier has mechanics that are impossible to do with FF2 such as reverse market-gardening (if you're in the air and he's on the ground and he melees you, it's a market-garden) and that Super Jumping as Trolldier works as if it's a rocket jump, so you can just super jump + market garden alternatively than rocketjumping.

Secondly, if you want to merge VSH and FF2, me + another contributor made the FF2 Compatibility Engine. It allows you to use and mix FF2 bosses with VSH2 bosses as well as use VSH2 as an FF2 superset since alot of FF2 based code can be run from VSH2.

(quick note about Trolldier, the video is old and I've since changed Trolldier to be less reliant on his shotgun, work easier for not-so-skilled players, and better balancing)
 
To be clear its not about you but about Kevin.
Because if you look at the suggestions list more closely, you'll see that many many suggestions are atleast a couple months old (heck some even years) and when something goes wrong it will also probably take a long time to update. Long enough to make people leave the servers simply of how unfun/unbalanced it would be.
While i absoluetly hated to read what Madact had to say, I eventually understood that it was the most logical and safest route to go through
That you're right about. No amount of code can fix that.
 
I want to add some videos showcasing VSH2 across a few communities:

A quick note that these videos use some custom, player-side or server-side content that isn't included nor affiliated with VSH2.

Skial VSH2 HHH Jr Gameplay
:

FF2's BlightCaller (VSH2 port) - TFF community

Genos from One Punch Man (The Brew Crew - not upstream but a fork of VSH2)

Obama Gameplay (The Brew Crew)
 
I want to add some videos showcasing VSH2 across a few communities:

A quick note that these videos use some custom, player-side or server-side content that isn't included nor affiliated with VSH2.

Skial VSH2 HHH Jr Gameplay
:

FF2's BlightCaller (VSH2 port) - TFF community

Genos from One Punch Man (The Brew Crew - not upstream but a fork of VSH2)

Obama Gameplay (The Brew Crew)

I'm loving the visuals for the first video with the boss healthbar and all that but as you said some things aren't the effect of VSH2. Do you have a test of your plugin just on it's own, like a video or screenshots demonstrating it that isn't on a community?
 
I'm loving the visuals for the first video with the boss healthbar and all that but as you said some things aren't the effect of VSH2. Do you have a test of your plugin just on it's own, like a video or screenshots demonstrating it that isn't on a community?
The boss health bar from the first video is a custom HUD from the player recording. The first video, besides the visuals, is a good example of VSH2 on its own as well.

I don't have video or screenshots as VSH2 without any customization and modifications visually looks and feels no different than VSH1 and that is by design. For VSH2 to be considered VSH1's true successor as opposed to FF2, VSH2 must feel like VSH1 but also provide more than what FF2 can.
 
Nergral, will this effect any current ingame mechanics? For example how much damage market gardens and back stabs do? Alongside this I assume the reason u have 40k hp on the clip you showed is because the server is 32 players?
 
Nergral, will this effect any current ingame mechanics? For example how much damage market gardens and back stabs do? Alongside this I assume the reason u have 40k hp on the clip you showed is because the server is 32 players?
nah. The clip shows 40K HP because that server has a VSH2 addon that universally modifies boss health with their own custom health formula. I know this because their server manager asked me for help in achieving this.
 
Sorry to necro this thread but I wanted to mention a big enhancement update I did for VSH2:

  • Added 3 new events: 'OnBannerDeployed', 'OnBannerEffect', 'OnUberLoopEnd'.
  • Added new convenience method: `GetTFClass`.
  • Slightly reformatted Heavy Shotgun Healing code to be more readable.
  • Added error logging when trying to access a VSH2Player property that doesn't exist.
  • Added new native for temporarily setting attributes directly on players and bosses.
  • Added new stock 'MakePawnTimer' which works more flexibly than 'SetPawnTimer'.
  • Added new cvars: 'vsh2_thirddegree_uber_gain', 'vsh2_uber_deploy_charge', 'vsh2_start_uber_charge', 'vsh2_sniper_climb_damage'.
  • Removed 'repeat' macro function.
  • Added client-sided music playing (closes issue #95).
  • Further expanded the int key based methods for ConfigMap.
  • Added plugin map for faster plugin lookups."
  • Added cvar on time delays for the late spawn blocker.
  • Added 'flRoundStartTime' property for the Gamemode manager.
  • Removed 'IntHash'.
  • Fixed Jarate not removing rage.
  • Some formatting changes.
  • Added internal API doc.
  • Changed 'GetTFClass()' from method into property.
  • Replaced ArrayList param in manager functions with local-dynamic boss arrays.
  • Replaced ArrayList where local-dynamic arrays can be used.
  • Added new cvars: 'vsh2_sword_max_overheal', 'vsh2_sword_health_add', 'vsh2_late_spawn_delay', 'vsh2_trigger_hurt_threshold', 'vsh2_max_trigger_hurt_damage', 'vsh2_max_boss_glow_time', 'vsh2_phlog_taunt_dmg_mult', 'vsh2_spy_headshot_dmg_mult', 'vsh2_diamondback_mannmelter_dmg', 'vsh2_katana_max_overheal_add', 'vsh2_katana_health_add', 'vsh2_powerjack_max_overheal_add', 'vsh2_powerjack_health_add', 'vsh2_battalions_backup_dmg_mult', 'vsh2_kunai_health_add', 'vsh2_kunai_health_guard', 'vsh2_kunai_health_cap', 'vsh2_telefrag_logic', 'vsh2_telefrag_dmg', 'vsh2_mantreads_stomp_logic', 'vsh2_mantreads_stomp_dmg'.
  • Exposed more options for 'IncreaseHeadCount' player method.
  • Exposed more options for 'Heal' player method.
  • Changed plugin registrar to check for conflicts via plugin map.
  • Updated 'StopMusic' to work for player-sided music.
  • Decoupled player crit logic and HUD logic from red player think.
  • Fixed last player total boss health message covering boss intro messages.
  • Added new native 'VSH2_GetBossNameByIndex'.
  • Added new forward hooks 'OnRedPlayerThinkPost', 'OnRedPlayerHUD', 'OnRedPlayerCrits', and 'OnShowStats'.
  • Cvar 'vsh2_permanent_overheal' is no longer functional.
  • Added the ability to preserve/override weapons based on either indexes or classnames and both types lets you filter by class or do all class as a default, etc.
  • Added property 'hHealTarget' as wrapper over `GetHealPatient`.
  • Added ConfigMap-based helpers for custom bosses and addons.
  • Updated minion-based gamemode methods to filter with an owner boss.
  • Updated Plague Doctor example boss code.
 
@Madact the vote went overwhelmingly into yes, maybe we can get the reasonings behind who said no and get this shipped to Kevin?
 
i have VSH2 up and running on my dev server incase some admins want to test it hit me up.
 
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Honestly, VSH2 is just FF2 but just renamed to VSH2 lol
That's why VSH2 can run FF2 bosses with the compatibility plugin right?
Also from its README + Alliedmodders page:
What makes VSH2 different from FF2 and why should I use VSH2 over FF2?
FF2 handles bosses through a combination of config file parsing and subplugins that act as boss abilities.

VSH2 uses a more powerful mechanism through a combination of gamemode and boss events that boss modules/subplugins can hook to and perform actions accordingly along WITH optional config file parsing.

Of course, VSH2's mechanism comes with tradeoffs. You need to know SourcePawn coding in order to create bosses. You don't need to be an expert but you need to know a little more than the basics.

The benefit with VSH2's mechanism is that you can make truly unique bosses through gameplay and mechanics while FF2's drawbacks is that, though easier to create bosses, their gameplay is cookie-cutter and generic.

VSH2 also supports boss packs like FF2 but VSH2 does NOT require switching between boss packs at a time.

Another thing is that VSH2 allows you to make any combination of multibosses using existing bosses. Not to mention that VSH2 bosses also have more data you can work with such as boss states, lives, ultimate powers, and you can expand the kind of data bosses can use by adding new properties to a boss' property map!
 
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That's why VSH2 can run FF2 bosses with the compatibility plugin right?
Also from its README + Alliedmodders page:
no disrespect there but i doubt i'd use VSH2 for my FF2 server if i'd need bridges and what not sounds to me not very efficient usage and may cause after tf2 related updates just unnecessary more headaches.
 
no disrespect there but i doubt i'd use VSH2 for my FF2 server if i'd need bridges and what not sounds to me not very efficient usage and may cause after tf2 related updates just unnecessary more headaches.
none taken, it's just an option for communities that want to switch over from FF2 to VSH2 but they don't want to lose all the FF2 bosses they currently have.
 
we'll see how far we can get by adjusting the current plugin for our needs and if that doesnt work out we'll see if VSH2 can resolve it.
for now i'll drop it though.
 
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