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Needed Jailbreak Rule Changes.

Discussion in 'Jailbreak - 193.192.59.191:27175' started by Code, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. Code

    Code New Member

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    This post is direct overview of my personal opinion of this community JB Rules. These following sentences/points are explicitly my opinion and my thoughts about them. The following post will be address like so; I will go down the list of JB rules that I deem unfit, and I will give my opinion of it and the best way to fix it. What I am seeking is not only a fix to these rules but also gain another persons opinion, perhaps another person who has more knowledge can give me better light on the matter. At the end of these, I have put additional rules that should also be added.

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Prisoners/Reds

    1. Prisoners who hit any BLU player will get a Rebeller status, this also applies to BLU players who bait.

    Response: Most of my 2,621 hours of TF2 have been on Jailbreak servers, and this by far has to be the most ridiculous rule i have ever experienced. This is mostly on the Reds side of baiting because there is another rule of Blues that I will address later. Reds should be able to hit Blues weather they are blocking the way or in areas were they should not belong, (Cells, Medic, and Red side of Games, etc). Multiple times have I seen Reds be killed because a Blue has either blocked their path or abused this.

    2. Prisoners can gain the Rebeller status by vandalising/breaking items/props on the map.
    The armoury door/vent is the only exception in this rule.
    But going inside the armoury or the vent/path leading towards the armoury will get you the Rebeller status as well.
    Breaking BLU building makes Prisoners gain the Rebeller status too, Minigame related building is an Exception.

    Response: This rule should really be slightly reversed, If the warden doesn't see or know there is a vent nearby a area the reds are then he/she should play more of the red team. It is also vary easy to notice when a Red is breaking into a vent by either looking at them or hearing it, which then it can easy stopped by saying "Touch that vent and you are KOS". If the red continues kill em, if the red goes into the vent, tell a fellow guard to stand Outside of the Armory if that's where it leads.

    3. Prisoners who block pathways into / out of armory, doorways of blue only areas, medic, put someone into a corner or any other closed off area will be classed as a Rebeller.

    Response: A Blue and/or Warden should know better to go into a close corner hallway or pathway with a bunch of reds, its like the same as "Would you like to go into a bath with piranhas?" A Blue should know that there should be Warden in front of a line of Reds with 1 other Blue if available, and others in the back to watch the line go.

    4. Rebellers who kill the Warden will make the round into a freeday, this means that all Prisoners will get their status changed into Freedays.
    This will most likely increase the chance to gain more Rebellers and kill the remaining Guards to win the GameMode as an Rebeller.

    Response: I will go more in-depth with this one when it comes to Blue side.

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Blues/Warden

    1. The Warden can't trick Prisoners by giving them misleading names or vague orders.
    "Day related" orders fall under this too, out of cell day will be overruled if the Warden gives the order to come out of the cell for example.

    Response: I can understand this rule on "No Days" because indeed it can get confusing, However, renaming the Reds is more of a mindgame and not trick. Renaming reds makes it clear on who is paying attention and makes reds think. Now, note that people can abuse this by using slang or offensive nicknames, but an obvious rule denies it.

    2.The Warden can't bait Prisoners just as the Guards can't bait Prisoners.
    Baiting means getting up close to the Prisoners or spinning your weapons or zoom up with your rifles. (This also counts towards the Freedays!)

    Response: This rule as i said before is completely ridiculous and may just be the laziest solution. It is quoted that Blues will be "Punished" if they were to bait, yet it docent say what the punishment is, after talking to multiple admins it turns out its /slay by an admin.. if the admin is online and they rarely are. This rule makes it so Blues can do whatever they want and get away with it, blue scout pushes you with a shortstop, blue blocks your path, anything and you as a red cannot do anything to stop it, because if you do you will instantly become a rebeler. Please for the love of god remove this horrible rule, and make it so reds can hit baiters but not force bait, its not that hard.

    3. If Warden dies you are not allowed to force Warden on yourself to be Warden as a Guard. You may do this if it is beginning of the round however.

    Response: The other blues should be able to carry on where the last warden ended especially if it took a long time to get down to a few reds and have it all end for nothing.
    Give it a 10 second period in which blues are able to reclaim warden.
    ______________________________________________________________________

    My additional thoughts/rules.

    Item ban the shortstop, or find a way to disable the "push" addon

    Ban the engineer on blue team, the engineer had a shotgun and a pistol and it would be better if that blue was a scout, the engineer gives out more negatives than positives. Examples: Building a dispenser that blocks reds, same with building teleporters also. red spies can enter. (Possibly changed already) Reds are able to get ammo from breaking engineers building.

    All in all we need more admins and staff to patrol JB, day after day i see freekillers, baiting, and just rude individuals just ruin the server and yet there are no admins to be found. Its as if the !calladmin button is broken.
     
    #1 Code, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  2. Code

    Code New Member

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    Doing whats best for the server rather then how you like it should be first priority. If you want more people/admins then stop making blues godlike beings or else everyone if going to have the same reaction: "I Don't Care".

    racer 1. racer 2.
     
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  3. Magglet

    Magglet Trial Gameserver Admin
    Trial Gameserver Admin Donator

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    Hey there code :) nice to see a user who cares about our JB servers and wants what’s best for them in his opinion. You seem to mainly dislike the rule about how we do not allow reds to hit blues when baiting.

    As you said many other communities allow this rule and I am not entirely sure as to why we have it this way. But, I know that this rule made it very difficult to admin freekills and you may disagree which is perfectly fine. There recently have been to promotions of very regular players known as ZeroPc and JustinArrow, so hopefully you will experience what it is like to see a baiter get punished on the server.

    If you still feel so strongly about our baiting rule maybe you should have a discussion with our current Senior JB admin @Madact@Madact

    Good day :)
    Magglet
     
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  4. Semicolon backslash

    Semicolon backslash Active Member

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    Steam:
    Never seen reds get ammo from breaking engineer stuff and its kos anyways but just because a class is bad doesn’t mean it should be banned (if we wanted that might as well ban spy 2 of his weapons slots can’t be used, knife means you have to bait to kill, yer disguises which is baiting, All revolvers except enforcer and stock have little to no upside and he is nearly defensless with only 125 hp)

    Why exactly, the shortstop push is useless but do we really need to ban it or disable when weapons like the flamethrowers can do the same thing but better yet no ban on them. I got it! Since weapons can freekill and that means all weapons break the rules remove blue weapons so they can’t freekill!

    This is here to make up for blue crutches perm crits I’m guessing.

    I’d contradict more things but I really don’t feel like it.
     
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  5. Madact

    Madact Gameserver Admin
    Gameserver Admin Contributor

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    Steam:
    God dammit @Magglet@Magglet dragging me in :p

    So yeah, I'm currently the only admin with listing this server as my main at the moment. I'm hoping Justin and Zero can join me soon, as my is limited in the mornings to USA time because I live in the UK ^^; Plus university, blah blah.
    I'm sorry that it's currently a mess right now, but we are trying :(

    As for the rules discussed, I was just editing some rules I was hoping to put into the thread...but kept getting called onto the server and distracted in general. I've done some edits to vandilzing but mainly on blu side.
    Baiting I was just going to add pyro gass pass, still keep the general rule of no hitting baiters. I mean everyone is open to discuss it and I've heard both sides. People like it, others don't literally cannot win with that rule xD
    See at panda community we're the odd jailbreak server. Our baiting and re-wardening rules are completely different, and you get punished for both baiting and fail warden (fail warden as in not understanding wtf is going on, opening cell doors letting it be freeday. Doesn't include dying to a red 20 seconds in lmao).
    No tricking is generally staying. No days, no saying 'all creds' then mass killing cause the warden has a crap microphone.

    Your discussion with racer, it seems you're pretty angry at blocking reds as a blue. Looks like this has happened to you and you are generally taking frustration out over it. Blues are still limited to rules, hence the baiting rule is up. If anything, if that blue is blocking and won't move I bet you if we didn't have this baiting rule he'd freekill you for hitting him/her. You'll screaming 'YOU ARE BAITING I WAS ALLOWED' and literally nobody can do anything.

    Any rule breaking can be reported to the forums and I'll attempt to sort it out the best I can. If anything all this really boils down to is lack of administrating on the server. Baiting is rule breaking and will be taken seriously when reported (so long as it's extensive)

    We are different from other servers, and so far things have worked out. Most regulars follow the rules, light baiting here and there but when I was a regular player it's not as bad as what I've seen on other servers where they hit the baiter, the blue ends up killing them and nothing happens. Just salt and then disconnect.
    I once was admin on another community called blackout gaming which had a jailbreak server. They allowed hitting baiters, as well as chasing them. 60% of my time admining that place was dealing with 'BUT HE BAITED REEEEEEEE' problems. Generally disturbed to the round and a real pain in my ass.
    I came to panda, found that hitting baiters weren't allowed and loved it. No more crying, just crying about supposed freekilling now xD


    Overall I get it. You're use to hitting baiters, it solves problems. Gives reds somewhat of power over the blues. Maybe that's what you want, but I really don't want to start dealing with the changes required to implement this. Unless like...A lot of people complain, like I'm talking the whole god damn server. I'd do it then, I'll consider it. But panda has had this rule for...2-3 years? I really don't see that changing.

    I'll keep this going if you want to talk about this, but I don't see this going anywhere. We can talk about the other rules I guess.

    Edit: Realising I repeated myself and may have sound harsh lmao, sorry.
     
    #5 Madact, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  6. Addster

    Addster New Member

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    Don't think I should get involved, but I don't care l m a o.

    So I would disagree with most of this list, like the rewardening thing and banning the shortstop and engineer class entirely. But I sort of agree with the baiting rule.

    In my experience, Red and Blu, people bait a good bit. Most/some get punished for it, but a good amount get away with it. Now I'm not saying only team bans and stuff. You see, in the rules currently, it says this under the "Baiting List" section:

    As stated above for warden and guard rules is mentioned baiting. Baiting is when you perform certain actions which provoke the prisoners to rebel. Keep in mind if a prisoner is provoked and hits the guard/warden that is baiting they turn into a rebeler. Baiting prisoners will result in a punishment.

    The thing is, what's the punishment? It never says what any punishment it is at all. The rules should be modified to tell guards to slay for baiting, even if the prisoner didn't decide to hit the baiter. If they continue to bait, then they should be punished. Keep in mind that reds (prisoners and freedays) basically have no way to successfully get rid of baiters, nor does anybody if an admin isn't online. And if a Blu is baiting, at least find a way to give that baited Red(s) a chance to fight for the LR.

    This would only apply if an admin is not on. If admins were always on, nobody would bait, but at the current moment, we're sorta short on admins. Or at least, none of them got their powers. *cough*


    In all, they should modify the baiting rule. Make it so the baiting rule is more strict and allows Reds to at least do something to get away from the baiter (that doesn't always mean killing them). If it is already strict and good enough and I'm just an idiot, well then I don't know. The rules are good in their current form, but the baiting one, in my opinion, needs some changes.
     
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  7. LDW115

    LDW115 New Member

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    Reds/Prisoners

    1. Prisoners who hit any BLU player will get a Rebeller status, this also applies to BLU players who bait.

    Response: This single rule massively reduces freekill and overall makes the server a less toxic place, as said above it removes debate about whether the blue was actually baiting, whether it was force bait. Yes there is a tiny learning curve for new players who when they join this server dont know this rule but they learn fast lol.

    2. Prisoners can gain the Rebeller status by vandalising/breaking items/props on the map.
    The armoury door/vent is the only exception in this rule.
    But going inside the armoury or the vent/path leading towards the armoury will get you the Rebeller status as well.
    Breaking BLU building makes Prisoners gain the Rebeller status too, Minigame related building is an Exception.

    Response: Why mandate all that warning nonsense, its simple, break something and get caught? you die.

    3. Prisoners who block pathways into / out of armory, doorways of blue only areas, medic, put someone into a corner or any other closed off area will be classed as a Rebeller.

    Response: "A Blue and/or Warden should know better to go into a close corner hallway or pathway with a bunch of reds, its like the same as "Would you like to go into a bath with piranhas?" A Blue should know that there should be Warden in front of a line of Reds with 1 other Blue if available, and others in the back to watch the line go."

    Yeah couldn't agree more not sure what you are suggesting here. But if you want the rule removed, no, reds shouldnt be allowed to block off the enterances to armory or medic without repurcussion.



    ______________________________________________________________________

    Blues/Warden

    1. The Warden can't trick Prisoners by giving them misleading names or vague orders.
    "Day related" orders fall under this too, out of cell day will be overruled if the Warden gives the order to come out of the cell for example.

    Response:
    Renaming reds has too much grey are, a warden with a shitty mic names reds creds or treds or .... you get it. How are the reds to tell?
    Honestly this just isnt a problem and if you want to play mind games, just play simon says.

    2.The Warden can't bait Prisoners just as the Guards can't bait Prisoners.
    Baiting means getting up close to the Prisoners or spinning your weapons or zoom up with your rifles. (This also counts towards the Freedays!)

    Response: Your arguement of no admins online = no rules enforced is not honest. If someone MFK's with no admins online, they get reported on forums. Report baiters on forums. With baiting, the benefit in reduction of freekills or debates on deaths far outways the slim rule breaking that is not allowed but exists as a result. If some blu blocks you in your cell, take a video or like a bunch of screenshots and report them if it matters that much to you. I fave played like 32 hours on the server now and rarely does this happen. On other servers however the debates and freekills happen almost every round.

    3. If Warden dies you are not allowed to force Warden on yourself to be Warden as a Guard. You may do this if it is beginning of the round however.

    Response: I kinda like how this gives reds the power that if they manage to kill the Warden they earn a freeday for all non rebeling reds. However I do think that IF FF is on, a guard should be allowed to go warden to ONLY turn off the FF and still not be allowed to give orders.
    ______________________________________________________________________

    My additional thoughts/rules.

    Item ban the shortstop, or find a way to disable the "push" addon

    - No, then you should ban flamethrowers for the same reason, it's just not that big of a problem and honestly a lesser problem than flame throwers would be.

    Ban the engineer on blue team, the engineer had a shotgun and a pistol and it would be better if that blue was a scout, the engineer gives out more negatives than positives. Examples: Building a dispenser that blocks reds, same with building teleporters also. red spies can enter. (Possibly changed already) Reds are able to get ammo from breaking engineers building.
    -No, the engie has decent shotguns and the teleporters and dispensers can come in handy, you are massively exaggerating the problems. Spies being spies isnt a problem and once again if the engie blocks the path with a dispenser, report them.

    All in all we need more admins and staff to patrol JB, day after day i see freekillers, baiting, and just rude individuals just ruin the server and yet there are no admins to be found. Its as if the !calladmin button is broken.
    THIS I can agree on, tho with zero and others getting powers soon it is a bit better but JM Frost still manages to fuck it up every night.
     
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  8. Dandy

    Dandy Active Member

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    The logic for the baiting rules of PandaCommunity is very simple.

    In what prison is a prisoner allowed to hit a guard with a physical weapon, tearing off a certain chunk of their body, and then able to get away with it by saying "they were too close!"

    The answer is none.
     
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