Declined [JB] Re re-work the AFK freeze order (1 Viewer)

[Ranger Ciri]

As many people who are on the forums and the servers know, the most common order given by warden, AFK freeze has been reworked. AFK freeze was the order given by warden to have reds both stop moving & freelooking which was very essential to in an effective way prevent rebelling and keeping warden alive (there are countless examples). The order has since been re-done and given a new meaning which now in other terms can translate to "stop moving". The change in itself is not too complex and people will eventually adapt, this is simply because the "older" AFK freeze order was rather easy to follow.

The reason I say the AFK freeze order was rather easy to follow is because you either guess and follow it from doing what other players are doing for instance, or just dying and learning from it as you would in the majority of situations in jailbreak. Jailbreak is not necessarily the easiest gamemode for new players and will take a few tries to understand it somewhat and the AFK freeze order of all things should not be an exception.

I am also making this post since the main issue with this order was trigger-happy guards, meaning that if someone freelooks just slightly they could get killed for it. However I cannot see how this wouldn't apply to any order given by warden that is being broken by a red "just slightly" and not being killable for it. What I mean by this is, should a red NOT be KOS? if warden were to tell them not to move and they do move, but just a little? Or should warden maybe no longer be able to give that order since it can lead to reds dying for a small reason rather than just following the order.

In this instance we have sadly chosen to bend and re-write the rules.

Please leave your Input, and maybe another poll can be added in a later stage.

 

[vinny]

I personally haven't seen anyone actually use the rule change to its full potential, It's just much easier for Wardens to simply say AFK instead of having to point Reds to a specific area of the map.
I think it's a badly made change and many have pointed out that it would be far better to have AFK and AFM as separate orders which IS different from what we used to have and it is also a staple of all Jailbreak server, Everyone will understand what it means because it's so much more straight forward than the orders being combined.

It is different from what Ciri is suggesting but if we want a nice middle ground then this is a good option.

 

[Kurry]

As many people who are on the forums and the servers know, the most common order given by warden, AFK freeze has been reworked. AFK freeze was the order given by warden to have reds both stop moving & freelooking which was very essential to in an effective way prevent rebelling and keeping warden alive (there are countless examples). The order has since been re-done and given a new meaning which now in other terms can translate to "stop moving". The change in itself is not too complex and people will eventually adapt, this is simply because the "older" AFK freeze order was rather easy to follow.

The reason I say the AFK freeze order was rather easy to follow is because you either guess and follow it from doing what other players are doing for instance, or just dying and learning from it as you would in the majority of situations in jailbreak. Jailbreak is not necessarily the easiest gamemode for new players and will take a few tries to understand it somewhat and the AFK freeze order of all things should not be an exception.

I am also making this post since the main issue with this order was trigger-happy guards, meaning that if someone freelooks just slightly they could get killed for it. However I cannot see how this wouldn't apply to any order given by warden that is being broken by a red "just slightly" and not being killable for it. What I mean by this is, should a red NOT be KOS? if warden were to tell them not to move and they do move, but just a little? Or should warden maybe no longer be able to give that order since it can lead to reds dying for a small reason rather than just following the order.

In this instance we have sadly chosen to bend and re-write the rules.

Please leave your Input, and maybe another poll can be added in a later stage.

Just make them HAVE to say AFK AFM. that would fix all the problems.

 

[plutonists]

Just make them HAVE to say AFK AFM. that would fix all the problems.

They're arguing against that.

 

[Zee]

Used to agree that it either should be separated or stay as it is, But now that i played with the new rule its not really that abusable like I thought it might become.

Only confusion this might have created was the adaptation to the new rule, Reds are already disadvantaged by our rules heavily and the fact you can freelook doesn’t really give a freepass to rebellers to rush warden, most of the people who died from the afk freeze orders are clueless reds or people who are so jittery they have to have their hands on their mouses.

imo the change has been overall positive but I would agree to a compromise where the orders are separated like vinny said above.

———

“I am also making this post since the main issue with this order was trigger-happy guards, meaning that if someone freelooks just slightly they could get killed for it. However I cannot see how this wouldn't apply to any order given by warden that is being broken by a red "just slightly" and not being killable for it.”

I agree here that its probably just capitulating to trigger happy blues and catering rules to combat them but honestly what other option do you have, you can’t ban a rule-sticking trigger happy blue, its perfectly within the rules to kill a guy who slightly did the order wrong, its especially so when it comes to the old AFK Freeze order, you dont really have time to learn alot of the fun jb stuff when you die at the beginning to alot of rounds and have to just stare at the screen for more than 5 minutes till a round ends.

I like to think of it personally as a grace period for newbies, atleast you have the chance to experience more of the gamemode beyond cell area.

 

[Noirr]

imagine having slight mouse drift and you instantly get shot without warning because some random blu decided you dont deserve a warning. like it or not the afk change was a great change and reverting it would be a mistake

 

[Jim Bob]

imagine having slight mouse drift and you instantly get shot without warning because some random blu decided you dont deserve a warning. like it or not the afk change was a great change and reverting it would be a mistake

Might aswell remove AFK freeze since you can also accidentally press W/A/S/D

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

At the request of Ciri, I will be locking the thread until some feedback from the other admins can come in.

Thread will be unlocked after that, then you may continue voicing your opinions on the matter.

 

[crubf]

To open up, I'd like to mention that I'd be more interested in a discussion about making AFM/AFK seperate orders.

Having played with the current ruleset over the last couple of weeks I...haven't really seen any issue with it beyond people learning that there was a change made. With the old AFK ruleset, it was a pretty common occurance that during an AFK order, people would get killed for freelooking then immediately complain that the warden never said to AFM or that they didnt actually freelook (usually, in the latter case, they had actually just moved their mouse very very marginally and were killed for it.) You don't seem to prop up an issue with the current ruleset beyond a theory of a slippery slope that erodes rules, which currently isn't happening despite a couple of weeks since the change was made, so I don't see why we need to return to the old ruleset.

 

[Magglet]

As an admin that doesn't actively administrate on jb I am opposed to anything that limits wardens orders.

It is so confusing as someone who isn't a die hard jailbreak to know what's within wardens power, I already have to constantly refer to the rules just to undertake the most basic admin duties.

I find that knit picking basic commands like afk freeze is allowed afm isn't just adds layers of complexity to a gamemode which ultimately is meant to be, warden gives a command, if it doesn't kill you do it.

Just a thought that making rules clear and not multilayered is good. Limiting commands is always confusing to new blue.

 

[Cowboy]

There is a LOT to talk about on this thread so I'm going to break up my posts in order to avoid massive walls of texts. Once I am able to get my thoughts out completely i'll open up the thread back open and we can add a poll and continue this suggestion the usual way.

First off, I want to say welcome back @Ranger Ciri. From what I hear you are apparently an Old regular and an Ex-admin. It would be awesome for you and your friend group to continue being regulars and have you guys back fully. If you guys need anything in the future don't hesitate to message me on discord or on steam.

I'll start off with responding to your original post.

AFK freeze has been reworked. AFK freeze was the order given by warden to have reds both stop moving & freelooking which was very essential to in an effective way prevent rebelling and keeping warden alive (there are countless examples)

I unfortunately did not get examples from you regarding why it's essential to prevent rebelling, so I'll try to place myself in the shoes of a Warden who would want to restrict freelooking. One thing comes to mind and its to prevent Reds from looking for blind spots in Blue's coverage and making a beeline for a corner or an exit.

While this may be a case, I think its a pretty lazy way to basically allow Blues to get away with doing nothing when they aren't Warden. Even then, with the current rulechange you can still restrict the sightline of Reds and play around that field of view accordingly. Blues have crits, guns and other extreme advantages over Red players and they don't need this advantage as well.

The order has since been re-done and given a new meaning which now in other terms can translate to "stop moving". The change in itself is not too complex and people will eventually adapt, this is simply because the "older" AFK freeze order was rather easy to follow.

The AFK Freeze order wasn't especially difficult to follow, absolutely. However it was harmful to new players and was abused by players looking to score kills on Reds who might've accidently moved their mouse slightly if they hit their desk. Just because it is an easy rule to follow on paper, doesn't mean that there isn't evidence that it's simply not needed in the rules anymore and there is plenty of ways to simplify this rule to be friendly towards players without completely cucking the Warden and how he is able to give orders.

The reason I say the AFK freeze order was rather easy to follow is because you either guess and follow it from doing what other players are doing for instance, or just dying and learning from it as you would in the majority of situations in jailbreak. Jailbreak is not necessarily the easiest gamemode for new players and will take a few tries to understand it somewhat and the AFK freeze order of all things should not be an exception.

Sure, It can be learned in a few deaths, but I'd like you to suspend disbelief and perhaps put yourself in the shoes of a new player and try to think in their perspective. First impressions are everything in a new player and this rule being introduced gives newer players way more leeway and could keep them in the server long enough to be eventually become an established regular.

Imagine you first join the server and you are in your first round. The Warden states for all prisoners to AFK Freeze on the yellow line shoulder to shoulder. The player doesn't have any clue what hes supposed to do so he goes to turn his camera to the left to see what others are doing and is met with a shotgun round to the face. He's now having to wait for ten minutes for a new round and still hasn't any idea what he's doing and decides to leave the server. Does this happen all the time and do people stick around and learn the gamemode despite the steep learning curve? Sure they do, but imagine a first impression instead like this....

Now imagine with the new rule change, the Warden orders all the Prisoners to line up at the yellow line and AFK Freeze. The new player is able to fully look around without consequence and see what the other Prisoners are doing. He can fully see that nobody is moving around and is more apt to know that he shouldn't be moving. He gets to play his first minigame and has a blast and continues to play more. The new player fully dodges most of the initial learning curve and is able to play the round. Could've he just read the rules? Sure absolutely, but I'm willing to bet not a lot of people read server rules immediately after joining and just would rather jump in.

Let's also not take Panda JB for granted. The server isn't going to be around forever and one of our major selling points compared to other servers like Blackwonder and Wonderland is that our rules are simpler than theirs and we should continue to take advantage of that.

Now for the final example, let's say somebody with over 100 days of playtime plays on the server. He is given the standard order to AFK freeze on the Yellow line. He accidently bumps his desk for whatever reason and his mouse moves as a result. He is then killed for it and has to sit out an entire round. If that was me, I'd probably throw in the towel and go play something else for the time being.

Restricting Freelooking is a MAJOR painpoint in players new and old and it needs to remain removed.

I am also making this post since the main issue with this order was trigger-happy guards, meaning that if someone freelooks just slightly they could get killed for it. However I cannot see how this wouldn't apply to any order given by warden that is being broken by a red "just slightly" and not being killable for it.

I've sat here and pondered this for a good while and nothing comes to mind when it comes to any other rule or order that could get somebody killed for "slightly" doing it other than the no detour/bombrush implied rule which is a rule we simply cannot get rid of due to the fact that Reds would just abuse it if we removed it and it doesn't serve a purpose.

However, I believe killing a Red for slightly moving their mouse during AFK freeze is much more of an extreme case logically speaking than any other rebelling action that a Blue could perceive as kill worthy.

What I mean by this is, should a red NOT be KOS? if warden were to tell them not to move and they do move, but just a little? Or should warden maybe no longer be able to give that order since it can lead to reds dying for a small reason rather than just following the order.

I'll just leave you with this one video and I'll let you decide that yourself.

Spoiler: Hehe troll video

With the previous set of rules this kill is completely legal. Pie twitched his mouse slightly when he was talking and he was killed for it. The Jailbreak Gamemode is not about trying to knowledge check players as Warden or Guards killing Prisoners for minuscule mistakes. It should be fun minigames that are skill based or luck based, not kill hungry Guards which this rule actively neutralizes them a great deal.

In this instance we have sadly chosen to bend and re-write the rules.

I am not an individual who sees things in lines of "If its not broke, don't fix it." It's a good example of why i left my previous community as a staff member and chose to come here. Just because a rule has been in place for several years doesn't instantly make it fool proof and not worthy of critique or change. I believe in this change because I am passionate about jailbreak and I am passionate about enacting positive change which I believe that this rule has proven to do so in the last few weeks it has been live.

I'll go ahead and finish my thoughts later today, I'd humbly request that no other admins chime in until I've fully stated my thoughts. Just to preface, there will be a vote to introduce AFM as a separate order, but I'd just like to ask for some more time finishing my next couple of posts before adding a poll. Thanks again Ciri for making this suggestion.

 

[Cowboy]

Phew, thanks for your patience. @Magglet brought up some really great points and I'd love to talk about them in this post.

As an admin that doesn't actively administrate on jb I am opposed to anything that limits wardens orders.

The fact is simply that we already have rules in place to prevent Wardens orders that may cause the game to be unfair or partiality to Prisoners. This rule change is to prevent blues from taking advantage of a loophole in the rules that lets them kill Prisoners for moving their mouse slightly to the left.

Here is a couple of examples of rules that restrict how the warden can give orders.

Warden is also not allowed to give Last Request specific minigames on a normal round like Hunger games or Hide and Seek, Look up the Gamemode Specific Minigames and terms to see which ones there are.

You as Warden must give orders before 09:00, reds must remain in cells until specified time if no orders are given , If no order is given by that time then the round will be a freeday and will be punished. Opening the cell doors before an order is given is punishable.

The Warden has to give strict orders that Prisoners can follow.
The Warden's orders have to be clear so the Prisoners won't get confused on what to do.
If the Warden orders Prisoners to enter a Minigame the Warden has to give strict orders to the Prisoners if they can start it or where the Prisoners have to stand, if this isn't the case Prisoners are free to start the Minigame or stand where they want. The Warden is allowed to state rules after the minigame has started. However, the Warden cannot state rules that are unfair for some prisoners

These are just a few examples of rules that keep wardens in check on what they can't and cannot do. While I understand you may be talking more in lines of restricting wardens from what they were capable of doing previously, I think there's enough evidence to justify the rule change and why it's an extremely needed change from my post above.

It is so confusing as someone who isn't a die hard jailbreak to know what's within wardens power, I already have to constantly refer to the rules just to undertake the most basic admin duties.

There's definitely a reason why Jailbreak is the hardest server to moderate. We have over 3 pages of rules that need to be memorized and adjusting one out of a hundred is not going to make a stark difference. As far as the comment regarding referring to the rules, you aren't a jailbreak admin primarily so I would hope you would be using the rules as a source of information when making administrative decisions. I certainly wouldn't try and moderate VSH or FF2 without using the rules as reference until I knew them by heart.

Just a thought that making rules clear and not multilayered is good. Limiting commands is always confusing to new blue.

Blues have already a laundry list of restrictions they have to adhere to. The limitation of AFK freeze so far in the past couple weeks has been met with less resistance and the wardens i have seen haven't really felt the need to restrict Reds vision in the first place. The rule changes out one simple aspect which is the removal of complete restriction of freelooking, I don't find it multilayered as it simply adjusts it slightly to conform to new players and be more forgiving to Reds who prefer more visual freedom and taking power from Kill hungry blues.

As an admin perspective, I also have to deal with way less bullshit when I'm playing.
~There is less people getting freekilled
~I am getting begged for respawns way less
~When i ask Blues why they killed a certain person, they can no longer lie and say "they were freelooking" when they weren't
~I no longer have to deal with new players venting their frustration and having to explain to them why they were shot in the face for moving their mouse slightly to the right

These past few weeks as admin has honestly been fucking heaven for me and i don't want to go back with dealing with the He said/she said bullshit i had to deal with constantly with this old rule in place. Is that still going to be an occurance? Absolutely, but it's considerably less.

I've also noticed the amount of Non-MFK Calladmins have considerably dropped the past couple of weeks too.

Ill write one more piece on AFM and send this over to a poll and allow the discussion to continue.

 

[Cowboy]

Finally, I'll touch on AFM and why it's a very bad idea to separate the two rules. Ill quote semi himself on it

Semicolon really couldn't say it better than I could've. When I introduced the AFK freeze rule change, this is honestly the exact sentiment I share.

The point of dismantling AFM is to remove the complexity of the order. From my findings the past two weeks i haven't really seen anybody take advantage of the fact that they can still restrict freelooking in a limited way and just resort to doing the base order and letting them freelook which is supported by Vinny's statement here.

I personally haven't seen anyone actually use the rule change to its full potential, It's just much easier for Wardens to simply say AFK instead of having to point Reds to a specific area of the map.

While I agree with Vinny here, I really got to disagree with you on this statement.

it would be far better to have AFK and AFM as separate orders which IS different from what we used to have and it is also a staple of all Jailbreak server,

This is just simply not a factual statement

Spoiler: Blackwonder doesn't have a term for AFM and simply has no freelooking as implied

Spoiler: Freddy's server uses the same rules as us with No Freelooking not being implied

Freddy210hill's TF2 Jailbreak Rules

Welcome to the Freddy210hill jailbreak server! What's jailbreak? Jailbreak is a custom gamemode where the Red team are "Prisoners", while the Blu team are "Guards". One guard plays the role of the "Warden" and his/her goal is to order the Red team to compete in various minigames. Pr...

docs.google.com

Spoiler: SG Gaming also doesn't have a definition for AFM and uses a similar definition as us

The only server that i have seen that clearly seperates the two is Wonderland.TF. Meaning that this new term is going to take even longer to catch on then the current change and is going to cause a lot of frustration for new players and old alike.

I'd like to offer a compromise to you folks on the side of the isle of wanting to restrict freelooking. I'm willing to add an additional poll option to have "No Freelooking" be an added term to the rules. The term is easily recognizable and would be way more adaptable than adding AFM to the mix for players to now memorize. I am still however much more on board with remaining with the current rule we have and not reverting.

I know this was a LOT but i wanted a little bit of time fully getting all my points accross. Sorry if i went a little overkill here, I'm currently an English Major in College so this is sort of what i enjoy doing.

I've added a Poll with Four different options, towards the end of the poll I'll adjust it to the two most popular options and we can settle it then.

Thank you for reading and thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Xergon]

As someone who usually plays blue I'd like to put in my thoughts.

I really think AFM being implied is more of detriment. On more than one occassion, I've had to ask if AFK implies AFM and if the person who moved actually moved.

Decoupling AFM will definitely reduce the rates of people yelling about being freekilled because they bumped their table, or wasn't aware of the rule.



I vote to keep the rule as-is, I haven't had any issues with it, nor have I seen people missing or complaining about the new rule.

 

[Ian]

I believe that things should be simplified.
- AFK is a universal term used outside of jailbreak and is pretty well known, away from keyboard. I think this should have as little convolution as possible. I think it should apply to all actions defaulted to keyboard in our rules. These actions include stuff such as moving, taunting, jumping, crouching, and maybe even voice commands if we want to be super specific.

- I think we should allow the AFM command a place within our orders. The actions restricted by it would be anything involved with the mouse by default, such as swinging melee weapons, freelooking, using ubercharge, and sapping.

- Swapping weapons is able to be done both on keyboard and on mouse, therefore I believe that it should be separate such as stating for everyone to have a melee out.

- Restricting voice chat should remain the same as it is now, even if using voice is not AFK by the definition provided

- About the freelooking drama, I think that freelooking should only be KOS if it continues for longer than tiny twitches. Killing over super tiny twitches can just be extended to nitpicking. This does open up personal discretion, but AFM orders solely should not be used as a main form of reducing the number of reds in play

- These 2 orders being seperate just makes sense, and I think that if implemented new players will have an easier time adjusting, wardens will be more clear in most cases, and players will be reminded to not look around causing less confusion on death. I noticed before the change, many players would not pay attention to the afk orders as much, unless it was in cell area, or a line of some sort, maybe forgetting to afk because they were in a minigame. An example of people getting surprised by the order in its past context is if you were to ask people to afk in a game such as steady pace, but warden does not start the game. Most times, people looked around until the game starts, and subconsciously stop following the order. If the warden had wanted to, they could ask everyone out of the game, and kill the ones who looked around then play the game. Having the warden be required to clarify if they want to disallow freelooking will remind reds of the restriction.

An example of what is twitching to the clearest degree:

An example of prolonged freelooking to the clearest degree

The point is behind these 2 clips is that people should be clearly freelooking, just like when providing orders, it should be clear that someone is not following orders before you act on things. (at that point its just nitpicking which already isn't allowed)
I also like the old rule, but only if it fully encompasses the described definition of afk and afm that I described.

 

[Ranger Ciri]

I have read what you wrote thoroughly and see where you’re coming from, I appreciate the more detailed explanations and even examples as to why the change took place.

It seems however like the main issue keeps going back to trigger-happy guards. Some of them may even kill you for delaying some slight second or barely detouring for taking a slightly longer path. The issue here is not the rule itself but how it can been seen as something used to the blus advantage by it being exploited in a nitpicky manner. An example of a solution I would go for in this case would be influencing the blue to somehow be more calm and simply aim to make the player norms and enviroment better. This can also be done by being a role model and setting a good example to other players.

Luckily this isn’t too big of a problem to the point where the rules need to be changed and a similar perspective should be used on AFK freeze as it falls in the same category of barely rebelling and trigger happy blus.

New players will continuously run into obstacles on jb and will ofcourse most of the time be an experience issue/diff, their goal is to try to overcome these obstacles and overtime they will on average survive longer in rounds as they play more. Sadly the chances will forever exist that their first impression won’t be the best, for all I know they could even run into a mass freekiller and then it's simply not meant to be if they deside to no longer join, naturally the argument could ofcourse be made that a solution to MFK would be removing weapons and that's (as funny as it sounds) comparably how I view this change on AFK freeze.

The reason I am posting this in the first place is because I see it causing more problems than solutions, but it’s seems to be very convenient to you as an admin so I’m happy for you.

I also do very much like the thought but highly disagree the order change will be a long term solution to maintaining server population, I do also find changing the order because the chance exists of a new player leaving forever due to AFK freeze is somewhat farfetched. For the sake of it let's say that this AFK freeze change does have an impact long term for Panda community jailbreak. I would still imagine it to be extremely marginal as I find it hard to believe that making a change on AFK freeze is going to make, let alone any, impact on the server population. It’s just not ”it”.

It would be awesome for you and your friend group to continue being regulars and have you guys back fully. If you guys need anything in the future don't hesitate to message me on discord or on steam.

For future reference, I'm not doing this post with- nor for anyone specific. You may refer to me in singular form ^^

 

[Mark!]

I honestly just don't see the point in including afm as an actual order. Like Semi mentioned AFK taunts let you look around with no limits which is p2w, and also the point of "not allowing reds to see holes in blue team defenses" is kinda valid but again looping taunts let you do that even better. Even if we ignore taunts fully and have a hypothetical situation where nobody can taunt, people still can use the third-person command. While it's not as effective as a taunt, it still gives you a pretty wide fov of the map.

As someone who had a little bit of a broken mouse, sometimes it would just move the cursor without any input. The afm of the order part got me killed on multiple occasions so I might be biased here. But I think it's also important to think about the probability of someone moving their mouse on accident, there are many ways this can happen (Either accidentally hitting your desk, moving your mouse unintentionally, or technical issues).

Might aswell remove AFK freeze since you can also accidentally press W/A/S/D

I disagree with this because anything can happen accidentally, it's just about how easily and how often it happens. If you just move your mouse by a cm it will react, if you move your keyboard it will not press down any keys. While someone accidentally pressing down keyboard keys can indeed happen, it's much less likely to happen than moving your mouse.

In the end, I just don't see the point of this order, how is someone not moving their mouse essential for guard's survival? I just don't see why it should be implemented.

 

[zevs]

its good to revert it cuz i can slur troll with good reason in dms for nitpicking a mf looking half a centimetre to the left

 

[hehe troll]

I believe that things should be simplified.
- AFK is a universal term used outside of jailbreak and is pretty well known, away from keyboard. I think this should have as little convolution as possible. I think it should apply to all actions defaulted to keyboard in our rules. These actions include stuff such as moving, taunting, jumping, crouching, and maybe even voice commands if we want to be super specific.

- I think we should allow the AFM command a place within our orders. The actions restricted by it would be anything involved with the mouse by default, such as swinging melee weapons, freelooking, using ubercharge, and sapping.

- Swapping weapons is able to be done both on keyboard and on mouse, therefore I believe that it should be separate such as stating for everyone to have a melee out.

- Restricting voice chat should remain the same as it is now, even if using voice is not AFK by the definition provided

- About the freelooking drama, I think that freelooking should only be KOS if it continues for longer than tiny twitches. Killing over super tiny twitches can just be extended to nitpicking. This does open up personal discretion, but AFM orders solely should not be used as a main form of reducing the number of reds in play

- These 2 orders being seperate just makes sense, and I think that if implemented new players will have an easier time adjusting, wardens will be more clear in most cases, and players will be reminded to not look around causing less confusion on death. I noticed before the change, many players would not pay attention to the afk orders as much, unless it was in cell area, or a line of some sort, maybe forgetting to afk because they were in a minigame. An example of people getting surprised by the order in its past context is if you were to ask people to afk in a game such as steady pace, but warden does not start the game. Most times, people looked around until the game starts, and subconsciously stop following the order. If the warden had wanted to, they could ask everyone out of the game, and kill the ones who looked around then play the game. Having the warden be required to clarify if they want to disallow freelooking will remind reds of the restriction.

An example of what is twitching to the clearest degree:
View attachment 27822
An example of prolonged freelooking to the clearest degree
View attachment 27823
The point is behind these 2 clips is that people should be clearly freelooking, just like when providing orders, it should be clear that someone is not following orders before you act on things. (at that point its just nitpicking which already isn't allowed)
I also like the old rule, but only if it fully encompasses the described definition of afk and afm that I described.

pie twitching moment

 

[DarkDragonian]

Ain't reading all that.

I just want to be able to play a game without having to worry about rule changes every single day.