Pending [FF2] Remove vsh_2fortdesk (1 Viewer)

[Jas :)]

i cant be assed staying up to continue talking

-Separate the 2 servers map pools bc they play so differently
-There's many worse maps to be considered before removing something as popular as this
-Can just revert to an old version if the changes that were made aren't liked (which seems to be the case)
-Reactions are fucking stupid because they don't convey actual meaning and makes us all look snarky and bitchy. We should all stop using them

 

[Otis]

This thread is an up and down roller coaster lmao

Well, anyway, I agree with the map pool being different for the two Servers.
To the point of bringing the Map back to another version... (for me at least) this doesn't solve the inherent issues the map got.
Perhaps adding the Nec map as a substitute vote would make a difference...?

Since we've deviated quite often from the main point of this suggestion, I'll just write this off as my last response. Go crazy ladies & gents.

 

[UberMedicFully]

The map has a bad overlay, having a death pit (that was one in the old version) being one of the reasons. The Boss spawn shouldn't be giving you an option to abuse a push to take advantage on. However, I can understand that on a map like 2fortdesk where you can get absolutely fucked when knowing how to abuse certain strats, that being said, it's a terrible map.

Necs version somewhat takes the bad map title away as it is mirrored, more space, no spawn that gives you a free boost to abuse. Certain strats are harder to perform to take advantage on the Boss. If i remember correctly, you cannot fall into the pit, so that's a huge plus in my opinion.

IF we have to take an edit, then go with Necs version. It makes the gameplay more bareable.
Other than that, remove this irritating map, there's no excuse that could save the older versions.

(talking out of ff2 experience)

 

[Heather]

I think there's definitely enough varied opinions to warrant changing the poll options to: Yes / No / Nec Version / Edit map

no spawn that gives you a free boost to abuse.

I can imagine this might be worse on FF2(?) but with VSH, hale needs this kind of advantage to have an enjoyable round, a lot of our map pool have boosts similar to this that hale uses like on Nebula that generally goes a long way to making hale playable.
Iirc the platform hale spawns on, also stops allowing the use of it after a certain amount of resets around 5 times roughly.

 

[Skorpieo]

(talking out of ff2 experience)

that right there is the problem, this is vsh and not ff2

 

[UberMedicFully]

I think there's definitely enough varied opinions to warrant changing the poll options to: Yes / No / Nec Version / Edit map



I can imagine this might be worse on FF2(?) but with VSH, hale needs this kind of advantage to have an enjoyable round, a lot of our map pool have boosts similar to this that hale uses like on Nebula that generally goes a long way to making hale playable.
Iirc the platform hale spawns on, also stops allowing the use of it after a certain amount of resets around 5 times roughly.

Oh definitely, I did play VSH often enough to realize that Hale has to rely on that boost often enough to win, but on FF2 it's so stupid.
If you play a few rounds 2fortdesk in FF2, you may get why it is stupid lmao.

I agree on seperating the map poll, both modes have balance differences as i told Kevin that.

 

[UberMedicFully]

that right there is the problem, this is vsh and not ff2

Yet the thread also includes FF2.

 

[Heather]

Oh definitely, I did play VSH often enough to realize that Hale has to rely on that boost often enough to win, but on FF2 it's so stupid.
If you play a few rounds 2fortdesk in FF2, you may get why it is stupid lmao.

I agree on seperating the map poll, both modes have balance differences as i told Kevin that.

With VSH now having members that are able to dedicated themselves more wholeheartedly to stuff like code changes and map changes (Abject being a good example of this), now might be the best time to look into separate map pools

Especially since VSH has had a long history of being dragged around on the whims of FF2 votes, mostly due to our community being a lot more quiet/off-forums. I definitely know a fair few regulars that are sour about this.

 

[Madact]

Let us keep the topic on the map being removed from the ff2 / vsh shared map pool for now until there is confirmation from Kevin to separate the pools. Please note this has been discussed before in the past and Kevin said no. It has been a while since this so if you would like to bring it up again I advise making a suggestion purely for it or speak to Kevin directly.

As for this map it's rank 3 for ff2 and rank 6 for vsh. A popular map like this to be removed is a big deal and I'm glad you all are considering different options such as a fix for the map or a similar map with heavy edits.
I'll make some poll adjusts on Monday as this seems to be a very popular suggestion! See if there is anymore developments to come.

 

[Skorpieo]

Yet the thread also includes FF2.

yet ur are extremly ff2 sided. like adding things in the past that just fucked over vsh. and im not gonna list them, you know what changes i mean that you smuggelt into vsh

 

[Skorpieo]

Too be fair, both Gamemodes are sooooo different that u can not bring the same map changes to both.

In FF2 a map that i played in the past called Minegay (the old one) has an underground part where it is a good defence point or more a deathtrap for the players depending on the choosen Boss.
In VSH it was straight up a deathtrap for the Hale.

You cannot bring a change for both Server, it HAS to be separated.

For 2fortdesk i can imagen that some FF2 player like the falling off and not dying part. Can be a good save for some Boss rages that are 100% death for the Player.
Vsh its just super annoing for Hale. Raging a Winger Scout or Mantreaths Solly only for them to fall of the edge and can ez run away.

Same as Ubermedic said about the Golden Platfrom boost giving the Bosses more Power, Power they dont really need in FF2 because Bosses are more Powerfull.
Vsh the Hale rather needs it to win the round but most of the newer Hales dont know about that boost.

 

[Autismo]

The reason this map is bad is because it's too small and a complete clusterfuck, a hale with more than a functionable amount of braincells will abuse the map teleport to go back to catapult himself, being a soft reset plus the fall allows the hale to functionally have a 2nd super jump until the gold bars finally crater after what seems to be 13+ pseudo super jumps.
I don't care if the map is a "revive" option and blind nostalgia is something that disallows for better things to happen, like the removal of the map and people gravitating to better maps that don't have overly exploitable features that're not existent in many a map.
better yet the reason the map sucks IS because it's small, large maps suck because they become sniper havens if there's not enough structured areas to cover for the hale (looking at dustdown which will never get removed), the map can't be fixed without overhauling it, like with kruphixx's screenshot of what seems to be a other server's attempt at fixing it which I think looks like a great step forward but I would advocate for removing the top most book (green/purple) and replace it with 2 popsicle sticks (like the ones in the middle) to improve movement for all classes since only fan scouts and soldiers can bypass the need to use the catapult.
still just removing it would be better and I've spent plenty of time playing this map throughout my years, not a grain of nostalgia for it, shit map.

 

[Linetm]

I personally don't particularly care for this map, because often times, running Linux, it has been often crashing the game on connection, so the server gets literally unplayable for me until the map changes. I doubt it affects many people (I'm fairly realistic about the number of weirdos like me) but still a little bit of a point against it.

If that is ever considered for a fix - I'll happily help in testing tho :>

 

[UberMedicFully]

Since the majoriy of VSH players have voted against this but the majority of FF2 players have voted for it's removal, we should remove it from FF2 only then, so both communities from both modes are happy.

 

[Madact]

Since the majoriy of VSH players have voted against this but the majority of FF2 players have voted for it's removal, we should remove it from FF2 only then, so both communities from both modes are happy.

I've changed the thread to FF2 only and reset the poll, I'll trust either you @Kruphixx @Otis The Guy to let FF2 players know to vote on this new poll now. This is so results are clear.

As for VSH it will not be removed from VSH map pool unless a new thread separate from this one with the VSH tag is made.