On Hold [VSH] Perhaps it's time for VSH2? (1 Viewer)

[Jiji]

Original suggestion about VSH2:

Declined - Upgrading to VSH2

Hello Everybody. I am Nergal, the creator & lead developer of VSH2 and I would like to discuss the possibility of having the Panda VSH servers upgrade to VSH2! Firstly, why VSH2? Well compared to VSH1... VSH2 is in active development. VSH2 allows you to have more than 1 bosses at a time...

www.panda-community.com

Most things about VSH2 are already explained in that thread but I'll explain some stuff again here in maybe a little more simple way. This update is mostly beneficial for developers rather than players, however players would probably still notice some differences.

Why should VSH be upgraded to VSH2?

• Active development, as mentioned in the original thread. VSH2 still gets some updates after all those years.
• Easier customization. In case any changes, such as weapon tweaks or hale changes are needed, they would be much easier to make. The biggest flaw of VSH1 is that everything is put into one plugin - Weapon attributes, boss attributes, etc., making it a sometimes incredibly annoying to change anything. In VSH2, each boss has its own plugin and config. Weapons attributes are all in a config, making it incredibly easy to modify any of them.
• Tons of other customization - VSH2 code can also be heavily modified to anyone's liking. There's also a ton of new cvars.
• Addons, quality-of-life things - Some things that can benefit players. There are various addons that can be added to VSH2, such as Transparent Viewmodels, Difficulty Settings (Similiar to the ones on FF2), Additional boss themes etc.. There's also a built in boss selection menu, boss health bar and built-in support of some plugins
• Less bugs, better perfomance - Current VSH plugin is incredibly old, laggy and in general difficult to work with. An infamous bug on the current plugin is the MOTD glitch which makes players stuck in spectator.

---

I'm perfectly aware that this wouldn't be a simple process and it would take some time, but in the end it would be worth it.

I'm not gonna add a poll for now, since this is probably for Kevin to decide whether he wants to upgrade or not.

GitHub - VSH2-Devs/Vs-Saxton-Hale-2: VSH2 is a rewrite of the original VSH, meant to combine the best of VSH and FF2.

VSH2 is a rewrite of the original VSH, meant to combine the best of VSH and FF2. - VSH2-Devs/Vs-Saxton-Hale-2

github.com

 

[Racer911-1]

So I've talked with Nergal, the creator of VSH2, to let him know about this thread as he maybe had something important or interesting to say.
And he did.

Coincidentally, he planned to make a replacement for VSH2 and rename it to "Super Freak Fortress" (SFF). He mentions that VSH2 was intended for custom bosses but that the communities weren't taking advantage of that aspect.
For the most part SFF should improve on the technical side, but it will be more modular in code, add-ons, bosses and backward compatibility with VSH1, VSH2 and FF2 and other custom VSH's/FF2s.
Other communities such as Skial and Blackwonder are already aware about SFF, so it will be a multi-community effort.
The only downside to this might be the implementation being more complex than VSH2.

However keep in mind that this doesn't mean that there is no reason to switch to VSH2. This here is just as a reminder to keep SFF in mind.
Oh and if there is any interest, Nergal said that playtesters would be appreciated.

 

[Spam Goose]

So I've talked with Nergal, the creator of VSH2, to let him know about this thread as he maybe had something important or interesting to say.
And he did.

Coincidentally, he planned to make a replacement for VSH2 and rename it to "Super Freak Fortress" (SFF). He mentions that VSH2 was intended for custom bosses but that the communities weren't taking advantage of that aspect.
For the most part SFF should improve on the technical side, but it will be more modular in code, add-ons, bosses and backward compatibility with VSH1, VSH2 and FF2 and other custom VSH's/FF2s.
Other communities such as Skial and Blackwonder are already aware about SFF, so it will be a multi-community effort.
The only downside to this might be the implementation being more complex than VSH2.

However keep in mind that this doesn't mean that there is no reason to switch to VSH2. This here is just as a reminder to keep SFF in mind.
Oh and if there is any interest, Nergal said that playtesters would be appreciated.

Back when VSH2 was first suggested as an upgrade it look extremely promising, I still think it would be a great thing to implement! If SFF will be an improvement over both, I don't see a reason to give it a shot if it means improving the game significantly.


(Since I'm getting back into tf2 I don't mind being a playtester either)

 

[Kevin]

i still dont believe its useful - VSH is in my eyes classic saxton hale bosses and nothing else.
if i want custom bosses i'll use FF2 for that part so whats the point?

 

[Spam Goose]

i still dont believe its useful - VSH is in my eyes classic saxton hale bosses and nothing else.
if i want custom bosses i'll use FF2 for that part so whats the point?

Original suggestion about VSH2:

Declined - Upgrading to VSH2

Hello Everybody. I am Nergal, the creator & lead developer of VSH2 and I would like to discuss the possibility of having the Panda VSH servers upgrade to VSH2! Firstly, why VSH2? Well compared to VSH1... VSH2 is in active development. VSH2 allows you to have more than 1 bosses at a time...

www.panda-community.com

Most things about VSH2 are already explained in that thread but I'll explain some stuff again here in maybe a little more simple way. This update is mostly beneficial for developers rather than players, however players would probably still notice some differences.

Why should VSH be upgraded to VSH2?

• Active development, as mentioned in the original thread. VSH2 still gets some updates after all those years.
• Easier customization. In case any changes, such as weapon tweaks or hale changes are needed, they would be much easier to make. The biggest flaw of VSH1 is that everything is put into one plugin - Weapon attributes, boss attributes, etc., making it a sometimes incredibly annoying to change anything. In VSH2, each boss has its own plugin and config. Weapons attributes are all in a config, making it incredibly easy to modify any of them.
• Tons of other customization - VSH2 code can also be heavily modified to anyone's liking. There's also a ton of new cvars.
• Addons, quality-of-life things - Some things that can benefit players. There are various addons that can be added to VSH2, such as Transparent Viewmodels, Difficulty Settings (Similiar to the ones on FF2), Additional boss themes etc.. There's also a built in boss selection menu, boss health bar and built-in support of some plugins
• Less bugs, better perfomance - Current VSH plugin is incredibly old, laggy and in general difficult to work with. An infamous bug on the current plugin is the MOTD glitch which makes players stuck in spectator.

---

I'm perfectly aware that this wouldn't be a simple process and it would take some time, but in the end it would be worth it.

I'm not gonna add a poll for now, since this is probably for Kevin to decide whether he wants to upgrade or not.

GitHub - VSH2-Devs/Vs-Saxton-Hale-2: VSH2 is a rewrite of the original VSH, meant to combine the best of VSH and FF2.

VSH2 is a rewrite of the original VSH, meant to combine the best of VSH and FF2. - VSH2-Devs/Vs-Saxton-Hale-2

github.com

I think Kruphixx said what a majority of what was needed to be said: QOL improvements, easier to adjust and add things, still gets updated, and a big one: Less bugs and better performance. Really can't see a reason to not upgrade if its better in every way

You also don't have to use custom bosses if you don't want to

 

[Kevin]

I think Kruphixx said what a majority of what was needed to be said: QOL improvements, easier to adjust and add things, still gets updated, and a big one: Less bugs and better performance. Really can't see a reason to not upgrade if its better in every way

You also don't have to use custom bosses if you don't want to

iirc all bugs have been fixed and things adjusted?
"better performance" like what?

 

[Jiji]

iirc all bugs have been fixed and things adjusted?
"better performance" like what?

I did notice a bit more stable perfomance on servers running the VSH2 plugin. Could have been placebo though? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And well, definitely not all bugs have been fixed. The MOTD glitch is still there and there's a bug with sniper's knockback modifier, which only works on the default sniper rifle and not the other ones.

And hey, don't ignore the sweet quality-of-life improvements!

 

[Kevin]

I did notice a bit more stable perfomance on servers running the VSH2 plugin. Could have been placebo though? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And well, definitely not all bugs have been fixed. The MOTD glitch is still there and there's a bug with sniper's knockback modifier, which only works on the default sniper rifle and not the other ones.

first time that this is brought up then as it wasnt mentioned previously.

 

[Aerial]

I think its better to update it to VSH2, since its still getting updated and alive, we don't have to make it FF2, we still keeping it Vanilla but an Updated one.

 

[Oskar Dietz]

Imo VSH is fine with his current state. But I have to admit that make changes with VSH2 looks more easier that with actual plugin, so maybe panda developers can apply changes oftenly and improve the server (I would ignore new bosses, we dont need more, panda has ff2).

 

[Kevin]

VSH2 doesnt even have native RTD integration so yeah we’ll patch out bugs of current VSH but wont switch to VSH2 as it seems to be more work than needed or well said beneficial.

 

[Jiji]

VSH2 doesnt even have native RTD integration so yeah we’ll patch out bugs of current VSH but wont switch to VSH2 as it seems to be more work than needed or well said beneficial.

I assume this is about hale potentially being able to use RTD. There's a cvar in the current RTD plugin that allows only a certain team to use RTD. That could be simply changed. The onlyreal downside would be blue team not being able to use RTD on the first round.

sm_rtd2_team

0/1/2

Restrict teams, 0 - No team restriction, 1 - Only BLU, 2 - Only RED.

 

[Nergal]

i still dont believe its useful - VSH is in my eyes classic saxton hale bosses and nothing else.
if i want custom bosses i'll use FF2 for that part so whats the point?

Nice to know all my hard work making VSH2 into a custom boss engine was a waste.
VSH is just a name for a boss mode, why separate one boss mod as "classic" but another one as for custom things when they can ALL be custom? Makes really no sense or logic beyond symbolic.

VSH2 doesnt even have native RTD integration so yeah we’ll patch out bugs of current VSH but wont switch to VSH2 as it seems to be more work than needed or well said beneficial.

VSH2 always uses blue team for bosses and minions. It doesn't need native RTD integration because you can just block blue team from using the RTD command. If it needed RTD integration, I would've added that a long time ago as an optional, official addon.

 

[Spam Goose]

Nice to know all my hard work making VSH2 into a custom boss engine was a waste.
VSH is just a name for a boss mode, why separate one boss mod as "classic" but another one as for custom things when they can ALL be custom? Makes really no sense or logic beyond symbolic.


VSH2 always uses blue team for bosses and minions. It doesn't need native RTD integration because you can just block blue team from using the RTD command. If it needed RTD integration, I would've added that a long time ago as an optional, official addon.

I know some people like VSH more compared to FF2 (mainly because there isn't custom bosses with special gimmicks) but if it brings upsides and better performance to the mode it sounds like a good change over. I'd definitely like to see an upgrade to the FF2 servers especially since they have to remove bosses to add new ones and I'd love to see a giant roster of new bosses with unique ideas between them.

I also found that weird since I know blocking a certain team for RTD was possible and makes it so one small reason to not add it entirely and not seen as beneficial?

 

[Kevin]

i’m aware that teams can be blocked within rtd itself but on some maps it may be flipped.
either way my opinion doesnt change.

 

[Kevin]

Nice to know all my hard work making VSH2 into a custom boss engine was a waste.
VSH is just a name for a boss mode, why separate one boss mod as "classic" but another one as for custom things when they can ALL be custom? Makes really no sense or logic beyond symbolic.


VSH2 always uses blue team for bosses and minions. It doesn't need native RTD integration because you can just block blue team from using the RTD command. If it needed RTD integration, I would've added that a long time ago as an optional, official addon.

i just wanted to note that there's no reason to feel personally attacked as this reply looked like you felt offended by what i wrote while there was no reason at all as i've just stated my point of view on it.
correct but we differenciate between VSH and FF2 for its classicness.

as of now i dont care about the features it offers as we dont need such stuff on VSH as we have 40+ bosses on FF2 which work greatly.

EDIT: if our VSH ever breaks down and we cant fix it we can surely swap to VSH2 but as of now it works fine and known bugs which have been reported before the update have been fixed, if there are still bugs left then they should've been reported otherwise they can obviously not be fixed and to argue swapping to VSH2 is like saying only cause my car needs new tyres i should buy a new one instead cause thats easier.