Declined [VSH?/FF2] retweak the Bootlegger to be like the mantreads and the ullapool caber to a market gardener (1 Viewer)

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Autismo

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Currently the sticky jumper serves no purpose other than being a niche weapon choice in certain maps with many full heal kits for nothing but delaying due to the fact that demoman has much better options like the quickiebomb launcher (projectile based sniper rifle by using taunt crits) or the scottish resistance being able to do 4k+ damage with a hidden 14 stack of stickybombs by hiding them in non physical map props/terrain or a non amp dispenser.

also demoknight is a pretty shit subclass since I've played on servers before hand that gave things like regenerative shields given you've gotten a certain amount of heads needed and being able to turn into the HHH with 666 hp (or 1k, I don't remember), so the class ends up being gimped in comparison to rocking a bomb launcher that can get crit stickies.

also I'd like to suggest not to have the additional turn speed whilst blast jumping, this is probably just me since I've invested one too many hours into sticky jumping but regardless of that demoman is currently just a 2 to 3 trick pony in terms of strong weapon choices.
I don't play on the vsh server so I don't know if the stats are the same.
 
My man really didn't make a no option.

On all seriousness, you're out here suggesting a black trolldier? Sheesh, that's rather poor thinking, people are already annoyed by the three normal trolldiers in military.

And you also call a subclass that can run almost as fast as a scout and usually take 2 hits "shit"? My man, I can consistently deal between 1k-4k with the demoknight loadout and one gamer rocks a casual 4k - 7k dmg each round!

So no, I'm not voting. Unless an admin adds a no option.
What the caber actually needs is the explosion stack removal while ubered "glitch".
 
My man really didn't make a no option.

On all seriousness, you're out here suggesting a black trolldier? Sheesh, that's rather poor thinking, people are already annoyed by the three normal trolldiers in military.

And you also call a subclass that can run almost as fast as a scout and usually take 2 hits "shit"? My man, I can consistently deal between 1k-4k with the demoknight loadout and one gamer rocks a casual 4k - 7k dmg each round!

So no, I'm not voting. Unless an admin adds a no option.
What the caber actually needs is the explosion stack removal while ubered "glitch".
I think it would be best if an admin added a no option and moved the date up by 2 days if they can.
a competent hale will always kill a demoknight who goes full demoknight easily and given they use something like a spy hale, which allows them to instantly attack an enemy, will usually end up killing them, the family business is also annoying to play against, not because it deals enough damage but because it's just a fat scout with the ability to tank a hit plus having good mobility but without the risk vs reward that demoknight has to gain from going face first into the hale.
I see full demoknight as a lesser breed compared to something like a quickiebomb/scottish resistance hybrid.
I also like to say that trollomans wouldn't be nearly as bad since having to switch from melee to jumper is a different story since the sticky jumper requires not just an initial shot but a detonation as well to retreat, which would ultimately filter a lot of players since most people wouldn't be able to get used to it, the best advice I could give for making market gardening demomen not a problem is to keep the slower holster time required with the caber so that trolliders are most prominent and would leave this as more of a niche thing.
also this should be a suggestion for another thread but: mantreads shouldn't give extra knockback, but if it's still going to continue having it, it should be reduced by half of what it currently is, also if the demoman mantreads response comes back positive, do not give demoman any extra knockback values or such since that would make it near impossible to catch up to him.
 
I think it would be best if an admin added a no option and moved the date up by 2 days if they can.
a competent hale will always kill a demoknight who goes full demoknight easily and given they use something like a spy hale, which allows them to instantly attack an enemy, will usually end up killing them, the family business is also annoying to play against, not because it deals enough damage but because it's just a fat scout with the ability to tank a hit plus having good mobility but without the risk vs reward that demoknight has to gain from going face first into the hale.
I see full demoknight as a lesser breed compared to something like a quickiebomb/scottish resistance hybrid.
I also like to say that trollomans wouldn't be nearly as bad since having to switch from melee to jumper is a different story since the sticky jumper requires not just an initial shot but a detonation as well to retreat, which would ultimately filter a lot of players since most people wouldn't be able to get used to it, the best advice I could give for making market gardening demomen not a problem is to keep the slower holster time required with the caber so that trolliders are most prominent and would leave this as more of a niche thing.
also this should be a suggestion for another thread but: mantreads shouldn't give extra knockback, but if it's still going to continue having it, it should be reduced by half of what it currently is, also if the demoman mantreads response comes back positive, do not give demoman any extra knockback values or such since that would make it near impossible to catch up to him.
Oh please, syncing two stickies mid-air is a fairly easy job nowadays, more over, the demoknight has a slightly longer range than the boss, so a skilled demoknight can utilize that very much so. And of course, spy bosses may be the majority out of per class perspective, that's not more than half of the entire roster, so the instant strike doesn't come up all the time.

And on the topic of sticky jumper, an extra button press is not that big of a skill floor spike my man.

Also why you making a fat scout comparison? I was only pointing out Demoknight's speed. If you want to actually make a comparison, look at the KGB melee heavy, who can take up to 4 hits thanks to resistances, but doesn't have a razorback aspect for his first hit and is a bit slower.

As for the quickie bomb launcher, that would be more accounted for the fact taunt crits are a strong thing in general, but that's a different topic.
Same thing with the resistance actually, and on top of that, those demos usually exploit the tight chokes and general sneaky spots, like dispencers or map's cones.
 
Oh please, syncing two stickies mid-air is a fairly easy job nowadays, more over, the demoknight has a slightly longer range than the boss, so a skilled demoknight can utilize that very much so. And of course, spy bosses may be the majority out of per class perspective, that's not more than half of the entire roster, so the instant strike doesn't come up all the time.

And on the topic of sticky jumper, an extra button press is not that big of a skill floor spike my man.

Also why you making a fat scout comparison? I was only pointing out Demoknight's speed. If you want to actually make a comparison, look at the KGB melee heavy, who can take up to 4 hits thanks to resistances, but doesn't have a razorback aspect for his first hit and is a bit slower.

As for the quickie bomb launcher, that would be more accounted for the fact taunt crits are a strong thing in general, but that's a different topic.
Same thing with the resistance actually, and on top of that, those demos usually exploit the tight chokes and general sneaky spots, like dispencers or map's cones.
syncing stickies midair isn't hard but more or so the fact that the damage taken outweighs the benefits for doing so, 37 damage per jump will eat a 175 hp class (200 counting booties, 235 with heads) up, especially considering fall damage which can only be negated by slopes, wallbugs (which is entirely dependent of the map and isn't really realistic to use anyways since why would anyone be jumping into a wall) or jumpbugs (which is something I don't think will ever happen on the ff2 or vsh server, this is something regulated to jumping and only jumping, it cancels out all forms of fall damage if done successfully but in terms of applicability it's entirely worthless since it's 2 tick perfect inputs + random) so the bootlegger being retweaked to that of the mantreads would help with how much damage is already taken from using it.

also like you've addressed with the skill floor not being high for a button extra press, it's more or so the time needed to engage and disengage from the hale, a soldier can jump in, hit the hale and disengage quick enough to be no longer in jeopardization of the hale, unless he's already seen him prior but regardless of that, a demoman (if this were the case) would need to either shoot a pre-emptive fire then switch to melee mid air and if he takes the swing, would have to wait until the swinging animation is done since you couldn't detonate stickybombs whilst swinging, or the other method, which is much slower, ultimately spelling death is shooting the sticky after going for a market garden, which is a lot of time compared to the rocket jumper, to clarify I'm not addressing it as a higher skill floor but more or so the amount of time needed to disengage the hale which trolldiers are better at (if this gets in that is).

the comparison for the fat scout is the loadout that usually goes with it, kgb + family business is a strong combo because the family business puts the heavy at near scout levels of speed, being able to opt into a strong defensive melee that allows you tank hits whilst healing for 25 per hit whilst also not having to risk either losing a shield or getting no heads in return, ultimately making the demoknight/razorback sniper slightly gimped once they lose it.
I have more trouble with fat scouts than I do with scouts because a scout dies in one hit whilst the other doesn't, a 2nd chance is a very strong thing about mobility in this gamemode, demoknights arent very scary since their damage output isn't high enough unless they use stickybombs which I see as a more reliable source than a grenade launcher since it can be used both as a mobility option and a damage output weapon.

taunt crits are strong in general but I feel like that's just a staple of the server if anything, despite some outliers like huntsman, which will be fixed.
 
There's no reason for long words or complicated sentences, so I'll keep it short.
I dislike both suggestions, I'd rather have the damage to demoknight increased and leave the Rocket Jumping & Market Gardening to Soldiers.
As mentioned already on this thread, simply buffing the shield & Sword should be sufficient to make Demoknighting more reliable. Plus a small nerf to stickies (Even though there are some disagreements in that department as well)

Best of luck with the thread, matey.
 
Dude.. Write less, The more you write the more I want to vote against you tbh, But Anyway,

Voting No, keep it as it is, Simply because trolldier is annoying unwanted playstyle.

Adding the Demoman to the party is Ridiculous,


and the stats between VSH and FF2 aren't that close if we're talking on a class like demoman,

Sticky jumper for example is Disabled in VSH.


Either ways, I find this very unnecessary.
 
swatting trolldiers is annoying enough we dont need a whole map of flying classes to chase till the end of times the other classes like the kgb heavy and others can be goombas on by a skilled hale so i rather keep it as is This is from a FF2 perspective dunno how vsh is doing on it
 
swatting trolldiers is annoying enough we dont need a whole map of flying classes to chase till the end of times the other classes like the kgb heavy and others can be goombas on by a skilled hale so i rather keep it as is This is from a FF2 perspective dunno how vsh is doing on it
From the vsh perspective i can say that it definetly isnt needed and would only bring even more chaos than we already have, with the shitshow that vsh is right now.
So thats an obvious No on the vsh side.
 
This poll is straight up a ridiculous buff to me since I main both soldier and demo, trolldier mainly.
I guess market gardener caber could be funny for the user but not for the receiver.
I'd rather deal with demoknights than another flying type of trolldier.
 
How unoriginal (teehee) We're just barely fine with Market Gardeners, thanks.
 
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