Remove 100% crits on guards (Jailbreak NY) (1 Viewer)

Keep random crits, or do not?


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When I play jailbreak, I often find that the full crits that are on the server for guards don't serve a proper purpose. I will state the reasons here:
  1. Random crits make it almost impossible to rebel as any class as spy in a game mode mean't for rebelling
  2. Damage negating weapons don't matter. Items like the Airstrike have no drawbacks, and there's almost no reason to use something like the direct hit (just an example).
  3. Full crits on guard makes it way easier to freekill.
  4. Renders most crit-based weapons completely useless. Jarate, Cleaner's Carbine, Reserve Shooter, Back-Scatter, Back Burner, Ambassador, etc. Most of these items I enjoy using, so it's sad to see them so harshly ''nerfed.''
A couple days ago, me and a few others had a discussion on it while on the server, and it seemed that most players (including veteran players) agreed.
 
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this suggestion has been done hundreds of times over that it hurts so im just going to link the 2 that i know of and are easy to access for myself on phone cause im lazy

2018

2019 :pepe:

you couldve just asked for the 2019 suggestion to be bumped but even then there is no reason as it has been tasked
 
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This would be horrible to change and here are a few reasons why:
1: Most blus (including myself I’ll admit) are not competent. They need the crits to have a chance at survival.
2: Alkatraz would become nearly unplayable. If a red gets Putin, then the blus would have such a low chance of killing them, it would always be a victory for blus.
3: Crits help stop a mass rebels easier than no crits (ok that’s an obvious one but I thought I should include it anyways)
4: This quote is redundant:
Full crits on guard makes it way easier to freekill
I have seen a red kill the warden MANY TIMES with a random crit. It’s happened to everyone, and it sucks. Crits don’t make the blus invincible.
5: Crits can stop armory camping reds. This one is not as common to see, but I still feel like I should talk about this. Reds can camp the health kits in armory with no problem if the guards don’t have crits. Crits make this harder to do, giving the blus a chance.


Sorry to be negative, and if there are any other scenarios I missed, please mention them below.
Overall: Crits should stay.
 
Here is a list of all the threads I could find about removing crits from Jailbreak because @Husky couldn't.


The last one was actually supposed to change something but it's task 90 or something.
Good luck with that getting added anytime soon.

With that out of the picture, every other suggestion got denied. Why?
Maybe because guaranteed crits is a unique aspect of Panda JB.
Maybe because we don't want to be like Wonderland and become an anarchy.
Maybe because guards die so often even with crits that removing them would be a nightmare.
Up to you to decide what reason.

Now, in my opinion, crits should definetly stay.
Guards are at a significant disadvantage to begin with. They are usually terribly outnumbered.
Your average guard will usually die because they are near clueless or don't understand what's going on.
It might suck dying to a crit, but once you get used to it, it's not really something you complain about.
Let's not forget that the melee crit rate that Reds have that usually fuck the round up. Also, people with guns don't have 100% accuracy.

In conclusion, none of my words matter, crits are a crutch, and Blus are bad.
Thank you for suggesting!
 
Im just gonna say this. I was warden for 15 reds as a sniper, crits literaly safed my ass until I still got rushed...
 
Also if there is a red heavy in armory, Camping on the medkits its literally impossible to Kill him without crits.

Dont Change. :sandvich:
 
Who were those "Veteran players" btw
 
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So were back at this again huh. I'll state my opinion why we should leave it as it is.
I'll try to use more examples so bare with me.

Random crits make it almost impossible to rebel as any class as spy in a game mode mean't for rebelling

I don't think spy is impossible rebel. Good spy's such as Ultimate and TWC will attempt to trickstab or backstab the warden or any other guards. Such if they die the BLUs are left with a few amount of guards depending on how many BLU's there are. In this case it could be possible to win a round.

Damage negating weapons don't matter. Items like the Airstrike have no drawbacks, and there's almost no reason to use something like the direct hit (just an example).
I have no opinion on this yet, i'll have to give you on this one.

Full crits on guard makes it way easier to freekill.

Now this was my opinion on this thread that with full crits it would be easier to freekill. Yes with crits it would be easy to freekill such as launching a accidental rocket into some poor innocent REDs, but get this. I remember Madact stating that if we remove crits from BLU we would have to allow rewardening everytime the warden dies. This is where I changed my opinion to leave the crits as it is.

Screenshot_2020-04-30 Pending - Crits in JB.png

Renders most crit-based weapons completely useless. Jarate, Cleaner's Carbine, Reserve Shooter, Back-Scatter, Back Burner, Ambassador, etc. Most of these items I enjoy using, so it's sad to see them so harshly ''nerfed.''

True but mainly I just use them as a meme because crits in jb are a thing or flexing on HLstats xD

Overall I say to leave it as it is. Now once I post this most of you are gonna disagree with me. Its mostly based on my opinion.
 
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I just realized how redundant this is too:
Renders most crit-based weapons completely useless. Jarate, Cleaner's Carbine, Reserve Shooter, Back-Scatter, Back Burner, Ambassador, etc. Most of these items I enjoy using, so it's sad to see them so harshly ''nerfed.''
So? Jarate rarely used on blu unless you’re using it to bait (which is restricted to new players not knowing what baiting even is). Most of these weapons that you have stated have damage penalties anyways, so Crits makes them more viable alternatives to just using the “meta”. If you want to use these weapons and have there mechanics be used then I have a very simple suggestion:

Go. Play. Casual.

Sorry if I sound negative, it’s just I really thought this quote was redundant.
 
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Alright, I have come to write my opinion for about the 50th time on this topic. My opinion still hasn't changed on guard crits, and I would like for them to be changed to minicrits, if even temporarily, to test run how blues do on the server.
Rebelling is a pain in the ass as it is right now, sure a spy can get a couple guards but once a guard can see him, hes dead. Hoh, you're a sniper? Well I'm a pyro with a shotgun and i can be a better sniper than you due to crits (happened to me a few days back)
Freekills would be massively reduced, no longer would you have a pyro shoot a flame at a rebelling running at them and then magically hitting about 5 more reds.
It will also involve more skill, and I'm saying this now, you can't get better if you always have a massive handicap, blues can actually get better, they just dont because they don't need to. I see people have brought in alkatraz, just... pay attention? All of the secrets give a sound cue around the map.
Also my last point, blue snipers will actually have to aim, and not just noscope the entire red team.
 
I’m just going to suggest this to all that see it:

Don’t suggest the removal of Crits. Why?This is the reason:




This always happens.
 

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I'm just gonna say this without any form of sugarcoating so incoming salt. I made my own post about this topic (which got taken down). One thing I said was "If you're a guard and can only land 2 out of 10 shots on a moving target, then you should just get better at aiming. If you can aim consistently, there is no need for a set of training wheels. And even if you do have good aim and there's a medic running at you with an Ubersaw, you still have a gun, out-range him. I know not everyone has the reaction time of a robot, but if you're so close to them that you can't even react fast enough then it's pretty much your fault. You should always keep a distance to prisoners in the first place."

Basically, stop using relying on 100% crits and actually get good at the game.
 
I'm just gonna say this without any form of sugarcoating so incoming salt. I made my own post about this topic (which got taken down). One thing I said was "If you're a guard and can only land 2 out of 10 shots on a moving target, then you should just get better at aiming. If you can aim consistently, there is no need for a set of training wheels. And even if you do have good aim and there's a medic running at you with an Ubersaw, you still have a gun, out-range him. I know not everyone has the reaction time of a robot, but if you're so close to them that you can't even react fast enough then it's pretty much your fault. You should always keep a distance to prisoners in the first place."

Basically, stop using relying on 100% crits and actually get good at the game.
Ok, so you’re telling me that a team of (on average) 5 blus is supposed to be able to defend themselves from 20+ reds without crits? Do you see anything wrong with that? I understand that you may think crits with blus are a crutch but, at least from my years of experience, having crits can make the rounds possible. Crits should stay. This has been established for a while now, and it should not be suggested again.
 
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One thing I said was "If you're a guard and can only land 2 out of 10 shots on a moving target, then you should just get better at aiming. If you can aim consistently, there is no need for a set of training wheels.
Requirements on BLU's 2.01
-Have a good mic
-Become warden if the game picks you randomly
-Be active guard
+good aim???
So if I have SHIT Aim, I wouldn't be on BLU???? Sure crits maybe for a crutch but here's the real kicker. Say this for an instance. Waxel (am sorry waxel plz don't bully) decides that an army would finish all the BLU's but whats that? We have crits, no problem just fire a crit pill at the group, But now you taken away the power of crits or replaced with minicrits it will be MUCH harder to take down assaults and even though if the group dies that serves a plenty of distraction for a spy to creep up on you and stab the warden leading to a freeday. Continue doing this until BLU's are non-existence. See what my point is that you given TOO much power to the RED's.

And even if you do have good aim and there's a medic running at you with an Ubersaw, you still have a gun, out-range him. I know not everyone has the reaction time of a robot, but if you're so close to them that you can't even react fast enough then it's pretty much your fault. You should always keep a distance to prisoners in the first place."
What if its Melee only??? How the fuck are we suppose to kill someone out of our melee range. Crits can easily decapitate a RED and gives an attempt to stop large amount of RED's charging a BLU. But now you remove crits or replaced with minicrits you give RED's a perfect assault wave. Have fun with 10 scouts charging at you with Boston Basher with no way to defend yourself. You are just saying that its our fault that most of us having bad reaction time.

Basically, stop using relying on 100% crits and actually get good at the game.

Wow I'm so bad that semi keeps on killing me with his worst loadout xD. How long do we get good at the game? It depends.

My overall opinion on your side. My counter-argument at least.
 
Ok, so you’re telling me that a team of (on average) 5 blus is supposed to be able to defend themselves from 20+ reds without crits?
Use your gun and, like I've previously stated, keep a distance from reds at all times.

having crits can make the rounds possible.
Other servers like sg-gaming and Wonder do not have 100% crits and I have not heard a single complaint whatsoever, on my nearly 3 years of playing both servers, granted sg-gaming has DR for LR. Yes, it is possible to play without crits.

Requirements on BLU's 2.01
-Have a good mic
-Become warden if the game picks you randomly
-Be active guard
+good aim???
I never said good aim was a requirement?? I only said you should have good aim. The main reason why guards don't try to get better aim is because they only need 4 bullets at most to kill the target. If you can aim consistently, there is no need for a set of training wheels.

So if I have SHIT Aim, I wouldn't be on BLU???? Sure crits maybe for a crutch but here's the real kicker. Say this for an instance. Waxel (am sorry waxel plz don't bully) decides that an army would finish all the BLU's but whats that? We have crits, no problem just fire a crit pill at the group, But now you taken away the power of crits or replaced with minicrits it will be MUCH harder to take down assaults and even though if the group dies that serves a plenty of distraction for a spy to creep up on you and stab the warden leading to a freeday. Continue doing this until BLU's are non-existence. See what my point is that you given TOO much power to the RED's.

What if its Melee only??? How the fuck are we suppose to kill someone out of our melee range. Crits can easily decapitate a RED and gives an attempt to stop large amount of RED's charging a BLU. But now you remove crits or replaced with minicrits you give RED's a perfect assault wave. Have fun with 10 scouts charging at you with Boston Basher with no way to defend yourself. You are just saying that its our fault that most of us having bad reaction time.
These are both incredibly specific scenarios. I agree that during Melee Day, guards should be granted crits. But do they really need crits when they have 1 or 2 guns? Having guns without the other team spawning with any already gives guards a big advantage. But for those guns to do 3 times as much damage as normal is very overkill if not upright broken. Addressing the 10 boston basher scouts rushing a single guard, I'm sure if that were to happen, other guards will help take down the rebelling scouts. Speaking of specific situations, let's say there's a force-a-nature scout on red and a loch-n-load demoman on blue. They are both the remaining players of the round. Both have found each other at the pool on jb_minecraft. The demo lands one crit pill and kills the scout, ending the round. Not only was that incredibly unfair for the scout, but the had decent aim and didn't need crits.

I saw someone make a really good point that 100% crits completely shut down rebellers, which goes against how the gamemode was meant to be played. It is the guards' jobs to kill rebellers, not game mechanics. Being forced to play obby every other round and being told to "afk freeze afm" every 3-5 minutes is not fun at all.
 
I think we should just end this forum battle tbh.
We've had enough back and forth and the poll is pretty clear on what most people think.
 
This was already tasked up to be changed quite some time ago. https://www.panda-community.com/threads/turn-the-guards-crits-to-mini-crits.17472/

That being said however it’s quite outdated and this poll clearly shows people think much differently now then before. So I’m going to suggest that the task is taken down altogether. don’t see any reason to have this any longer either, it’s frankly not even close.
 
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