Completed Reduce knockback on hale in VSH (1 Viewer)

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Hellboy

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Hi.

I don't know when this was implemented, but I'm fairly certain it's between 2019-2021, but knockback has increased on the hale.

It's gotten so bad, that over half the server is using /resetq every round.
Now, there's nothing inherently bad about players using /resetq if they don't want to become hale - actually that's a good sign.
However, it's a bad sign when beyond half the server is using it. Every single round.

A couple of days ago, we were 14 players in VSH, in Weaponsdepot, and it was the same 3-4 hales for 45 minutes. Why?
Because snipers can singlehandedly blow the hale away midair with a single no-scope.

I'm not gonna make this pyro thread v2 about snipers, but specifically snipers seem to have increased knockback.
I'm not entirely sure, but I feel like crit also has increased knockback.

It's made being hale an absolutely miserable experience. Trying to jump towards an engi with a lvl 1 sentry and his pistol? Get knocked back and try again.
Try to jump towards the sniper corner in Weaponsdepot? Try jumping 4 times, cause they will knock you all the way back midair.
Wanna take out a heavy with crit? You have to sneak around him or pray he misses.

I know a ton of people who has simply given up on being hale - including myself - because it's just not fun. It's infuriating. Frustrating.
Cause you're this giant with 24K HP, who will stop dead in his tracks midair, if he's shot just 1 time by a sniper.


My suggestion is very simple: reduce knockback from snipers & crit. Perhaps just reduce knockback in general.
 
Nice passive aggressive answers.

I believe this has been talked about before.

Taking a quote from heather that mentions knockback
'> Knockback values // ❓This requires editing the tf2attributes.sp file, despite it being a readily accessible file, downloading the base file online leaves a lot to be desired with very little to go off of, I think it'd be easier to look at a copy of the one currently being used on the server to figure out the line that needs to be changed'

@UberMedicFully
Just out of curiosity, does FF2 have a tf2attributes.sp file ? Doesn't have to reference panda's one but I'm wondering if there's any relation between vsh and ff2.
 
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Theres a Attribute to reduce Knockback or to completely remove it, i'll take later a look
 
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252Pictogram plus.png damage force reduction%s1% reduction in push force taken from damage

252 ; 0.2 - This value would turn it completely off, as i'm aware of (Its different in my Server based on the Attribute values)

252 ; 0.50 - Dont know If this would perfectly reduce it (Again, Its different in my Server based on the Attribute values)
 
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@Fredo & @Chermal with less than 2 hours combined of playtime on VSH, may I ask why you voted against this?
Should've went with the last option.
 
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I want to say that Game hours in VSH doesnt matter, it matters for how long they have played VSH, HLXStats didnt exist before in Panda.
 
I want to say that Game hours in VSH doesnt matter, it matters for how long they have played VSH, HLXStats didnt exist before in Panda.
I'd argue that it does, because it's a relatively new introduction to ruin the hale experience.

Before the new system, I was in top 5 of players, both in terms of days spent playing, but also points - so I'm well aware of how it was before.

Saying the new point system doesn't matter at all, is a part of the problem.
I'm not sure when it was introduced, but if you haven't spent at least a dozen hours observing how hard being hale has become, you have no idea.

I'd like for primarily people with experience on the new VSH system to come with feedback about how broken the system is, because it has gone to utter garbage.
Looking at the ratings now, I'd say it's pretty clear what the verdict is already.

I understand that implementing changes is complicated, difficult and time consuming (considering I now have 3 years experience in IT support), but it is necessary in order to keep VSH entertaining and active. I've literally never witnessed so many people using /resetq, ever.
8/10 times the hale gets absolutely wrecked - meaning it's a new player, who has yet to discover /resetq. The only good hales are the ones with years of experience, who, for some reason, loves to get their ass kicked. (except Kikka ;) )
 
Just to prove it's not my imagination that no one wants to become hale.

It is actually gamebreaking in extreme circumstances.

Take below as an example. For 33 minutes, it was a constant rotation of 2-3 people, depending on who forgot to type /nohale or /resetq every single round.
The score:
BLU: 1
RED: 15
With 12 minutes left of the map, and 16 rounds having been played in total, means that the average round lasted about 2 minutes.

I feel like I have necessary experience to comment on this, having played on this specific server over 1500 hours in total.
And in my opinion, tt is practically impossible to win as hale, in the worst of conditions - primarily because of knockback.

Queue points today
queue.jpg



Score between red & blue
score.jpg


Chat agreeing that being hale is liquid ass
chat 1.jpg



chat 2.jpg
 
... And just to prove it's not because of that one map either.


score 2.jpg



queue 2.jpg
 
252Pictogram plus.png damage force reduction%s1% reduction in push force taken from damage

252 ; 0.2 - This value would turn it completely off, as i'm aware of (Its different in my Server based on the Attribute values)

252 ; 0.50 - Dont know If this would perfectly reduce it (Again, Its different in my Server based on the Attribute values)

I would like to mention that these values apply to ANY knockback received by the hale and can theoretically ruin some weapons that rely on it.

A lot of discussions based around the VSH knockback tend to be either band-aid fixes that benefit some and hurt others or just outright game ruining ones, as there are way too many factors to take into mind (E.g crippling minigun knockback or even rockets)
Mini-crits and Full crits coded into certain weapons ensure that they'll do large amounts of knockback, with very little interference from the knockback attribute regardless of the value.
(I can't express how much of a pain packing/repacking VSH 1 is when trying to make edits to anything beyond attributes files, so changes to that are limited)

The solution i'd prefer is mostly to switch to VSH 2 to actually allow us to balance weapons correctly to bring them in line to where they should be, instead of making hale an immovable wall which was the same mistake Skial made (when I originally researched to see if blanket Dmg force reduction would solve it)
But at the same time it's quite a leap in terms of changes, which I know not everyone is keen on
Though I can understand if going the route of changing dmg force reduction values is the choice most choose to go with.
 
I would like to mention that these values apply to ANY knockback received by the hale and can theoretically ruin some weapons that rely on it.

A lot of discussions based around the VSH knockback tend to be either band-aid fixes that benefit some and hurt others or just outright game ruining ones, as there are way too many factors to take into mind (E.g crippling minigun knockback or even rockets)
Mini-crits and Full crits coded into certain weapons ensure that they'll do large amounts of knockback, with very little interference from the knockback attribute regardless of the value.
(I can't express how much of a pain packing/repacking VSH 1 is when trying to make edits to anything beyond attributes files, so changes to that are limited)

The solution i'd prefer is mostly to switch to VSH 2 to actually allow us to balance weapons correctly to bring them in line to where they should be, instead of making hale an immovable wall which was the same mistake Skial made (when I originally researched to see if blanket Dmg force reduction would solve it)
But at the same time it's quite a leap in terms of changes, which I know not everyone is keen on
Though I can understand if going the route of changing dmg force reduction values is the choice most choose to go with.
Hmm what is this VSH 2 you are referring to? :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:
Sounds very interesting and could solve a lot of problems right now, and potentially a lot more for the future. And since VSH EU right now is in a transitional state as it is right now anyways,with old regulars returning in droves looking for a new refreshing experience. :thinking:

In all seriousness this is something worth looking into, and probably deserves its own thread which i am not sure already exists.
Heres a link, Gn <3
 
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@Brick There is a thread for it already, actually created by the current maintainer of the VSH 2 mod
 
This suggestion seems to be primarily focused on knockback from sniper rifles, it seems like. Luckily enough, there's a custom plugin that allows knockback to be reduced on any weapon, so we won't need to reduce general knockback.


I've reset the poll to see if people are still interested in this (they're most likely are but still wanna be 100% sure).

Tagging VSH regulars to vote on this:

@Hellboy @Seelkadoom @TWC @Jim Bob @jotaro @Chae @Magglet @ImJustaTiger @GooseDot @Kikka @KronKrian @K Inkling°
 
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poll.jpg


Knockback from all sniper rifles will be reduced by 50%.

Task #244 - Reduce Sniper Knockback on VSH
 
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