Completed [JB] Tighter clarification on Trivia/Jeopardy rules and restrictions on Mass Trivia (1 Viewer)

[Nergal Nergalton]

A lot of you may know what inspired me to make this suggestion.

While I understand what Trivia is for and the appeal of it, many times (and this isn't just the recent major situation regarding it) wardens will do stuff with it that ends up going against our rules in some way shape or form. We've discussed mainly in Discord about the rules surrounding Trivia, but I feel give more clarification on what is and isn't allowed in Trivia would greatly help in the future so scenarios like this stop popping up. This is one is unfortunately going to be fairly big so brace yourself:

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Here is the current explanation of the rules surrounding Jeopardy in the rules:

Jeopardy is a quiz like game where the Warden or one of the guards he assigns will ask a series of questions the Prisoners will have to correctly answer. The warden can opt for any method they want but they must state rules for elimination prior to shooting any Prisoners.

That seems fine and basic, but these are some additional information/rules I'd like to add to:

- The questions asked have to be either TF2-related, math, or other basic school subjects. The questions must also be factual and not opinion-based.
This is the primary one for me. Especially recently, I've seen an uptick in custom LRs that are basically mass Trivia on obscure and quite frankly stupid subjects such as Brawl Stars, Skibidi Toilet, you name it. These are subjects hardly anyone would extensively know about it, and many times is basically favoritism as well as the RED who picked the subject for their LR may have extensive knowledge of the subject while the others don't. It would be like if I chose "African capitals mass Trivia", because I can name every country and their capital by heart (yes really), but I obviously know almost no one else can, thus the LR would be very biased towards me and unfair to the other REDs. If no one alive knows anything about the subject it'll just lead to frustration and a failround.

I know we discussed in Discord about how this would technically fall under the delaying rule, but I feel adding this rule would give way more clarification as many players might not see obscure subject Mass Trivia LRs as delaying.

Obviously, the questions also should have to be factual with a clear cut answer and not based on opinion such as "Is the Demoman overpowered?"

This has been happening way too much lately and I want it nipped in the bud.

- Jeopardy must be done in the designated location.
I know this rule would basically limit Jeopardy to the maps that have them (most in our rotation do, but there are a few that don't like District, XMF, and the latest version of Colors), but the only other easy alternative to this, have REDs compete to see who can type the right answer in chat first, isn't doable, due to ping disparities. We banned Soccer Trivia for that reason so I don't think normal Trivia should be allowed this way either. Actually, the rules do technically ban it since it states First reaction last reaction and other variations of it aren't allowed, but I don't know how many people are gonna think of answering Jeopardy questions with chat is considered that.

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Aside from these rules, I've also given the option on restricting Mass Trivia as well. Others may disagree with me, but to me Mass Trivia, even when it isn't subjects people barely know about, isn't fun. Many Trivias are small and cramped and definitely not designed to hold 20+ REDs (Spacejail's Trivia is a good example), making it just way too easy for the warden other BLUs to be killed by REDs. Doing it by calling up players often takes too long even if the warden tries to make it faster like giving time limits on giving answers, and doing it with groups of REDs huddled on the podiums just isn't practical.

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

- The questions asked have to be subjects that most players would know about it and/or are easy to understand. Obscure topics aren't allowed. The questions must also be factual and not opinion-based.

I think this leaves a bit too much leeway in terms of interpretation, when does something become "obscure"? You mention Brawl Stars and Skibidi Toilet, one is a popular mobile app and the other is a hyper-popular youtube series neither of which I would consider "obscure". I think a better solution would be to have a whitelist of permitted subjects such as tf2 and basic school subjects.

- Jeopardy must be done in the designated location.

This was originally what I wrote into the rules post soccer trivia ban, I believe bambi changed it to a specific soccer trivia ban when he re-did them.

Mass trivia is no worse in terms of delay than theater or diner, though I will admit the 20 player podium stack version is just asking for trouble.

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

I think this leaves a bit too much leeway in terms of interpretation, when does something become "obscure"? You mention Brawl Stars and Skibidi Toilet, one is a popular mobile app and the other is a hyper-popular youtube series neither of which I would consider "obscure". I think a better solution would be to have a whitelist of permitted subjects such as tf2 and basic school subjects.

Good point, noted and updated my proposed rule.

Mass trivia is no worse in terms of delay than theater or diner, though I will admit the 20 player podium stack version is just asking for trouble.

While I get where you're coming from I feel Mass Diner and Theater are a bit easier to manage mainly because most Diners and Theaters are big enough or have special waiting room-like areas in them to be able to hold a large amount of REDs without having them easily overtake the BLUs. We also now have a BLU vote command and menu for the Warden to reduce the delaying in those minigames.

 

[Dr. Meatloaf]

Aside from these rules, I've also given the option on restricting Mass Trivia as well. Others may disagree with me, but to me Mass Trivia, even when it isn't subjects people barely know about, isn't fun. Many Trivias are small and cramped and definitely not designed to hold 20+ REDs (Spacejail's Trivia is a good example), making it just way too easy for the warden other BLUs to be killed by REDs. Doing it by calling up players often takes too long even if the warden tries to make it faster like giving time limits on giving answers, and doing it with groups of REDs huddled on the podiums just isn't practical.

This is not a good reason to ban a good minigame that people do all the time. Mass trivia usually turns out just fine if you have a decent warden. Sure it’s true that if you have a bad warden they will probably get killed trying to do mass trivia, but since when is that a legitimate reason for banning a minigame?

I’d be sad to see mass trivia go, it’s lead to some really fun rounds and this proposed change honestly doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Cowboy]

Mass trivia usually turns out just fine

as somebody who has been adminstrating for panda for years now i can tell you that mass trivia usually devolves into mass delay/accidental freekilling majority of the time.

 

[Fairy]

i think panda is currently in a rule frenzy where we keep adding more and more rules to JB, making it way too complicated for non regulars. anyways..


these are my point simplified instead of making everything too complicated:

• Dont Allow Mass trivia

i think mass trivia should not be allowed due to it almost always ending into the timer running out or a failround of some kind, it not practical to run mass trivia. there is no map that has enough podiums for every player and if you get picked to go onto a podium there is a very low chance of your surviving since you have to stay on the podium for the entire round untill all the other players had their turn

• Make trivia only allowed on maps that have Trivia

i think we should have minigames in their representative location, you cant properly do trivia in location like Theatre due to there not being podiums, this means that players who have VC will be acknowledged faster then people who answer via chat,

• Question should be general/able to anyone to answer (neither should they be opinion based)

specific trivia subjects like certain video games apart from tf2 are just based of your own knowledge, for example if a player who knows a lot about helldivers and picks this as their LR trivia their are way more likely to win that round due to the other players not having knowledge of this subject We should have a clear rule about what is allowed (for example only tf2 and Jailbreak related question)


i am getting a bit tired of panda jb wanting to adjust every single rule but i felt like i should still give my feedback because its an ongoing suggestion that will effect the server, this suggestion is not perse "bad" but i think we should try to calm down the rule suggestions because we are getting to a point were non regulars are not able to play panda jb unless they re-read the rules every month

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

i think panda is currently in a rule frenzy where we keep adding more and more rules to JB, making it way too complicated for non regulars. anyways..

Absolutely agree with this. This suggestion should’ve been a discussion before we had any option to vote. It’s obvious it has been an issue and was of course been needing a change, but with something like this, discussion should’ve been made to ensure what we vote for absolutely represents what we want as a community.

 

[Mehgend]

I know this rule would basically limit Jeopardy to the maps that have them

Spy vs Spy, OPST, Volcano, XMF, Miami, District, and Colors is all that we have without one. I may have overcounted, but there is not a map uncounted for.

In my opinion this map pool, which includes two maps that are up for removal, is simply not large enough to warrant cany discussion on not implementing an outright ban on trivia outside the minigame.

Dont Allow Mass trivia

I do not agree with an outright ban on mass trivia as the last few that I have played have been lots of fun. At the very least it should be LR only as I dont think anyone should be doing it out of the blue.

Mostly because, as Meatloaf put it:

Mass trivia usually turns out just fine if you have a decent warden.

I wardened a mass trivia a few times, and I had lots of fun and ended up giving LR in about 6-7 minutes with 20 or so REDs on Carcerem, which is a notoriously small and difficult to manage trivia room.

Admitedly the ratio of disasters vs successful rounds is way in the favor of disasters, but I still enjoy the right rounds.

If it goes, so be it. Its not a big priority for me.

specific trivia subjects like certain video games apart from tf2 are just based of your own knowledge, for example if a player who knows a lot about helldivers and picks this as their LR trivia their are way more likely to win that round due to the other players not having knowledge of this subject We should have a clear rule about what is allowed (for example only tf2 and Jailbreak related question)

I feel this is a little too restrictive for my liking. If you happen to know what the warden asks then I feel you should be rewarded for it instead of trivia becoming a game of who can press the button fastest because the warden asked the easiest question of all time again.

Absolutely agree with banning hyper specific trivia themes as LR as it at best is most of the reds waiting to just die knowing abosolutely zero things on the subject while the one guy who knows everything sweeps every question.



My personal suggestion is:
Make mass trivia LR only

Ban the hyper specific topic mass trivia LRs

and ban trivia anywhere besides in trivia minigame rooms.



In my opinion its very simple and easy to undestand and gets a lot of the problems out.

However if you want to ban mass trivia in general then I would not be too upset.

 

[Cowboy]

Hi guys, maybe i can help out with this discussion using my previous experience.

Pretty common knowledge but i'm formerly from blackwonder and played there for multiple years before transitioning to Panda.

Their current rules based on trivia is exactly what is being proposed on this thread with it only being restricted to math or tf2 related questions. As somebody who has played on both communities i really do not miss how restrictive it was and would rather not see it devolve into garbage tf2 comic related questions or who can answer 1+1 the fastest.

Personally, i think the best way to deal with this is to Ban Mass trivia.

Sure yeah, theres some cases of it working out but the amount of people i've seen using mass trivia LR to just point farm and troll reds and/or just delay the round by asking impossibly hard/obscure questions is just annoying to the point i'd rather not deal with it as a player or as an admin.

Getting rid of mass trivia would mean that we wouldnt have to touch base Trivia rules because if people tried asking nonsense questions with no way of being answerable during a regular round we'd just punish them for delaying which would allow us to not have to restrict the questions being asked.

Hope nobody is willing to die on this Mass Trivia hill because i think it's our best option to just get rid of it so trivia itself isnt affected overall.

 

[Mehgend]

Their current rules based on trivia is exactly what is being proposed on this thread with it only being restricted to math or tf2 related questions. As somebody who has played on both communities i really do not miss how restrictive it was and would rather not see it devolve into garbage tf2 comic related questions or who can answer 1+1 the fastest.

Super agreed.

Plus I kind of enjoy learning new things if someone asks something about history or scienece or whatever.
For example, if someone asked what the force of gravity was on Venus, I would quite enjoy learning that.

I'd much rather die to a question I just do not know then die because someone pressed the button faster than me to answer what 2+2 is.

Personally, i think the best way to deal with this is to Ban Mass trivia.

Sure yeah, theres some cases of it working out but the amount of people i've seen using mass trivia LR to just point farm and troll reds and/or just delay the round by asking impossibly hard/obscure questions is just annoying to the point i'd rather not deal with it as a player or as an admin..

Hope nobody is willing to die on this Mass Trivia hill because i think it's our best option to just get rid of it so trivia itself isnt affected overall.

I'd hate to see mass trivia go, but theres significantly better ways to have fun. Totally not going to be super upset over it going away, but I would personally like to keep it.

 

[Valen]

gotta get rid of everything nice....

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

I've had enough arguing my own case because of pedantic infractions.
If any one else were in my position, I would have preferred it to have just been a banned LR/minigame, and the round in question been entirely averted.

Can Mass Trivia be fun?
Sure it can, but it is in no way needed on the server and does constitute as Fr/Lr.
Personally I disagree with the existence of Disco too, so I am entirely in favor of mass trivia's removal.

We don't need restrictions on standard Jeopardy/Trivia, granted a map has a designated area for it.
All questions of all kinds should be permitted as long as they do not heavily favor a given participant.

In all earnest we really don't need more rules nor suggestions, and this massive influx of recent suggestions show Panda moving in a direction counter intuitive to its ethos.
If this one suggestion can prevent future conflict and argumentation, then I am for it.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

I truthfully refuse to believe 16 people voted yes to update this rule without actually reading it through.

The questions asked have to be either TF2-related, math, or other basic school subjects. The questions must also be factual and not opinion-based

Do you guys genuinely want to answer every niche TF2 comic question that gets spewed out?


The rest of the suggestion is great, but genuinely, how do you do trivia outside of trivia without breaking existing rules ?
This is just adding new rules onto an already large rulebook that doesn’t need any more changes especially when it’s practically already covered.

 

[Mehgend]

I truthfully refuse to believe 16 people voted yes to update this rule without actually reading it through.

Im gonna be real I do not understand what the first part of the poll is for or what I am even voting on because I dont disagree with clarifying the rules on what you can/can't do in trivia, but I am VERY MUCH against limiting the questions, but those seem to be mutually exclusive here.

What do I vote for

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

Im gonna be real I do not understand what the first part of the poll is for or what I am even voting on because I dont disagree with clarifying the rules on what you can/can't do in trivia, but I am VERY MUCH against limiting the questions, but those seem to be mutually exclusive here.

What do I vote for

You can vote for both. They can both co-exist.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

You can vote for both. They can both co-exist.

People do not want to vote for both. You put it as if, you either want both or you vote for none.

 

[Mehgend]

You can vote for both. They can both co-exist.

So what do the first two options do exactly? I am very confused

 

[Musisphaera]

Coming from the early days of JB, I would like to share my opinion regarding this here:

Regarding question restrictions:
While I don't have all the knowledge regarding all the questions (Brawl Stars, Skibidi toilet, etc.), a lot do know them. To restrict such questions would be very overkill to the rules in my opinion, as we already have a lot of rules. + if the person gets banned for it, it would be a "for what" reason in my opinion.
And... we can always start to learn something new with those questions.

Regarding Mass Trivia:
To have Mass Trivia as an LR only would be favorable. I highlight this in the same manner as Mass Theater day (a day where I always will start rebelling ). While I don't like the LR and may result in many failrounds, it shouldn't be a restricted LR like Simon Says. Just have it as LR only and not be played as a proposed mini game on non-lr days.

 

[Zee]

I truthfully think this suggestion was a long time coming, although the recent mishap might've sped it up. Despite that I believe this could've been worded alot better.

I agree with most of the suggestion and like it's been said before in this suggestion that whole restricting questions thing definitely feels overkill! If people do not know the answer to a question the warden is obliged to make a new one otherwise it would be delaying on his part, either that or he could give hints to help the reds find the right answer, I genuinely feel that restricting trivia to only math or tf2 related questions would essentially kill a minigame that has the potential to be fun.

Besides that I do believe we need to clarify some things in the jeopardy ruleset to make it better understandable and not fall in the same trap that happened a little bit ago,Cheers.

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

So what do the first two options do exactly? I am very confused

If the vote passes, the rules I outlined will be added to the rules of Trivia.