Declined Jailbreak: allowing people to be guards without a microphone (1 Viewer)

[GrassWarlock]

I know how this sounds but please read the whole thread before making a judgment here.


First of all, to be perfect, this feature should be implemented under two conditions:
1-micless players can only join BLU if it won't affect team auto-balance.
2-micless players should have a self-assigned role that renders you unable to become the warden.

By enforcing those two conditions (both can be enforced through the server plugins' code), no disadvantage/harm would be applied to Jailbreak's gameplay.



"Why would we do this? What are the advantages?"

there are two types of reasons that resonate with me:
First, general reasons.
playing gaurd is fun. nobody can deny that.
being forced to play prisoner will get stale quickly if you don't balance it with the contrast of having power over others. players who play both roles will have a much higher retention rate to the server. this is common sense. playing different roles in a gamemode is more fun than playing one role.
restricting the role of a guard to mic-players only is redundant. There is no reason for it.
I have been in many, many rounds where guards don't provide any mic input and the match goes the same as otherwise.
guards aren't required to provide mic input.
it's more like a nice-have than a necessity. same as having a mic as a prisoner.
except prisoners aren't required to have a mic.

Second, personal reasons.
I have a medical condition that renders my voice useless. I have been playing on the prisoners' team on every videogame that has a jailbreak mode. and it's starting to get really, REALLY, stale. to the point of making me consider quitting jailbreak altogether. I really want to start playing as a guard for once. but the rules prevent me from doing so.
this may not apply to everybody (hence the name, personal) but such personal reasons prevent a good portion of players from ever playing guards on a jailbreak server. which really takes away from the experience.


"I have concerns that this change will affect my gameplay experience negatively"
I understand that some people will have concerns with this change and/or that I may have overseen something regarding it. for this reason, I will prompt you to please write those concerns in the comments of this thread and I will try to address them by suggesting a solution. I truly believe it's possible to implement such change without negatively impacting the overall gameplay/experience of jailbreak. we just have to be innovative about it!

Thanks for reading

Edit #1: spelling and wording.

 

[Madact]

By enforcing those two conditions (both can be enforced through the server plugins' code), no disadvantage/harm would be applied to Jailbreak's gameplay.

This is the part which is concerning. Where exactly do you know this is possible?
Please keep in mind also that our jailbreak plugin maybe different from other community jailbreak plugins.

@Semicolon Backslash has pointed out which JB plugin has it possible but it would be a complete switch to an outdated plugin when I believe jailbreak is going to switch to redux at one point.

Redux can do it by setting it to 'force warden only' (Where users have to !w. The server will no long pick a warden at the beginning of the round). You can see that we might have issues with this. If no one opts to be warden, the round will be a freeday.

The autobalance part you mention is not possible on redux. Both mic and non-mic blues will have the same priority. So it's possible the blue team can be filled with nobody with a microphone. Which will then lead to countless freedays.

Also microphone players won't be forced to be warden then. They could technically never !w even though they are the only one with a microphone on blue team. They also aren't forced to join blue team for the round to start as current: No one on blue team = no gameplay for you. This system encourages those with mircophones to step up in order for everyone to play.
Current days though we don't see this as an issue but this use to be an issue on EU jailbreak from time to time.

So there is all my concerns that you can address. Keep in mind, since apparently the system is changing to redux, this won't be possible plugin wise as it's just a mess.
If you suggest the plugin that semi found, it's outdated compared to redux.
But unless you have the commands for our current jailbreak plugin which allows both mic only force wardens and mic priority over non mic blues in auto balance please let us know.
We have a feeling you've gotten this idea from another community and I believe we know which one but we'll let you explain.

 

[Spam Goose]

not to be blunt/rude or anything, but why not just buy a mic if you want to be on blue so badly? you can get some for pretty cheap. seems like a much better alternative than making a bunch of code (and with what madact said, doesn't seem possible for the new plugin) for something that is easily fixed by spending a couple dollars

EDIT:
"I have a medical condition that renders my voice useless. I have been playing on the prisoners' team on every videogame that has a jailbreak mode. and it's starting to get really, REALLY, stale. to the point of making me consider quitting jailbreak altogether. I really want to start playing as a guard for once. but the rules prevent me from doing so.
this may not apply to everybody (hence the name, personal) but such personal reasons prevent a good portion of players from ever playing guards on a jailbreak server. which really takes away from the experience."
Sorry to hear that though, but the times I've played Jailbreak communication is very key for blues, especially with mics since a majority don't look at text chat. Maybe the admins can make an alternative solution for you but that's their call

 

[GrassWarlock]

This is the part which is concerning. Where exactly do you know this is possible?
Please keep in mind also that our jailbreak plugin maybe different from other community jailbreak plugins.

@Semicolon Backslash has pointed out which JB plugin has it possible but it would be a complete switch to an outdated plugin when I believe jailbreak is going to switch to redux at one point.

Redux can do it by setting it to 'force warden only' (Where users have to !w. The server will no long pick a warden at the beginning of the round). You can see that we might have issues with this. If no one opts to be warden, the round will be a freeday.

The autobalance part you mention is not possible on redux. Both mic and non-mic blues will have the same priority. So it's possible the blue team can be filled with nobody with a microphone. Which will then lead to countless freedays.

Also microphone players won't be forced to be warden then. They could technically never !w even though they are the only one with a microphone on blue team. They also aren't forced to join blue team for the round to start as current: No one on blue team = no gameplay for you. This system encourages those with mircophones to step up in order for everyone to play.
Current days though we don't see this as an issue but this use to be an issue on EU jailbreak from time to time.

So there is all my concerns that you can address. Keep in mind, since apparently the system is changing to redux, this won't be possible plugin wise as it's just a mess.
If you suggest the plugin that semi found, it's outdated compared to redux.
But unless you have the commands for our current jailbreak plugin which allows both mic only force wardens and mic priority over non mic blues in auto balance please let us know.
We have a feeling you've gotten this idea from another community and I believe we know which one but we'll let you explain.

Thanks for your reply! i will try to address all these issues.

let me preface this by saying that I'm not an expert in videogame plugins. nor do i have knowledge of what are the popular plugins used for Jailbreak.
But i do have some experience in programming and know the general concepts behind code, if that's important.

First, when i wrote "both can be enforced through the server's plugins' code", i wasn't addressing your plugin's already-existing features. Correct me if it's a silly idea, but i actually meant that you can directly modify the plugin's code to include such features.
i just checked what redux is and it seems pretty open-source. so if you have a plugin programmer on your team, implementing this should be simple (as far as plugin features go).
if you don't have a plugin programmer, then i concede that this would be a considerable obstacle to overcome (but perhaps still possible).

by modifying the plugin, you can pretty much fix all the other problems you mentioned.
adding the assigned "no-mic" role is the fix here.
simply put:
-make it so that the game doesn't start if only "no-mics" are on BLU.
-autobalance part will now work because you can separate "mics" and "no-mics" and give priority.
-server's first warden pick will randomly choose from all BLUs except "no-mics".

with this, all the issues you mentioned should be solved.
Of course, this won't apply if you don't have a person who's knowledgeable in plugin programming on your team. I wouldn't recommend switching to an old plugin which (i assume) has no support if you don't.
I apologize if there's something wrong with my understanding of plugins. and I welcome you to educate me on the matter if so.

 

[GrassWarlock]

not to be blunt/rude or anything, but why not just buy a mic if you want to be on blue so badly? you can get some for pretty cheap. seems like a much better alternative than making a bunch of code (and with what madact said, doesn't seem possible for the new plugin) for something that is easily fixed by spending a couple dollars

EDIT:
"I have a medical condition that renders my voice useless. I have been playing on the prisoners' team on every videogame that has a jailbreak mode. and it's starting to get really, REALLY, stale. to the point of making me consider quitting jailbreak altogether. I really want to start playing as a guard for once. but the rules prevent me from doing so.
this may not apply to everybody (hence the name, personal) but such personal reasons prevent a good portion of players from ever playing guards on a jailbreak server. which really takes away from the experience."
Sorry to hear that though, but the times I've played Jailbreak communication is very key for blues, especially with mics since a majority don't look at text chat. Maybe the admins can make an alternative solution for you but that's their call

Thanks for the comment!

I personally have a medical condition that prevents me from speaking.
I understand that most people don't have the same reason as I do, but I can think of a multitude of other reasons someone may want to become a guard but not want to become a warden.

for example, they may not be good at speaking English (but very good at understanding it),
they may live in a timezone where it's nighttime and their family is sleeping,
they may be uncomfortable with exposing their identity (mainly, their sex or age),
they may be too tired to speak or have a sore throat,
or they may simply like a more relaxed gameplay experience (in my opinion, guard is the most relaxing compared to prisoner and warden)

these are all reasons i thought if on the spot in about 10 minutes. I can only imagine that there are many more I haven't thought of.

I can resonate with your concern regarding communication. but I'm still unsure of whether the necessity of that communication outshines the benefits of opening up the guard role for everyone.
I can't count how many rounds I've been in where the guards simply never said a single word in VC yet the round still progressed as it normally would.
Perhaps we could try out this feature in experimental rounds and monitor its impact? we can try it out now even. by just preventing BLU guards from speaking for a couple of rounds and seeing how it goes.

again, thanks a lot for taking the time to reply!

 

[Madact]

Thanks for your reply! i will try to address all these issues.

let me preface this by saying that I'm not an expert in videogame plugins. nor do i have knowledge of what are the popular plugins used for Jailbreak.
But i do have some experience in programming and know the general concepts behind code, if that's important.

First, when i wrote "both can be enforced through the server's plugins' code", i wasn't addressing your plugin's already-existing features. Correct me if it's a silly idea, but i actually meant that you can directly modify the plugin's code to include such features.
i just checked what redux is and it seems pretty open-source. so if you have a plugin programmer on your team, implementing this should be simple (as far as plugin features go).
if you don't have a plugin programmer, then i concede that this would be a considerable obstacle to overcome (but perhaps still possible).

by modifying the plugin, you can pretty much fix all the other problems you mentioned.
adding the assigned "no-mic" role is the fix here.
simply put:
-make it so that the game doesn't start if only "no-mics" are on BLU.
-autobalance part will now work because you can separate "mics" and "no-mics" and give priority.
-server's first warden pick will randomly choose from all BLUs except "no-mics".

with this, all the issues you mentioned should be solved.
Of course, this won't apply if you don't have a person who's knowledgeable in plugin programming on your team. I wouldn't recommend switching to an old plugin which (i assume) has no support if you don't.
I apologize if there's something wrong with my understanding of plugins. and I welcome you to educate me on the matter if so.

It is pretty much the obstacle to overcome which is that we don't have a plugin programmer. There is someone learning on our team, but that doesn't mean that they are trusted to touch or see anything code related to panda community.

Really sounds like a great idea and is possible to code in if someone knows how. But given the circumstances of trust and expertise we cannot do it. Unless redux comes out with something similar to what you are suggesting here that would make this possible but currently it's not possible.

I'll leave this until the weekend. In case there's something I'm missing that can make this possible.

 

[GrassWarlock]

It is pretty much the obstacle to overcome which is that we don't have a plugin programmer. There is someone learning on our team, but that doesn't mean that they are trusted to touch or see anything code related to panda community.

Really sounds like a great idea and is possible to code in if someone knows how. But given the circumstances of trust and expertise we cannot do it. Unless redux comes out with something similar to what you are suggesting here that would make this possible but currently it's not possible.

I'll leave this until the weekend. In case there's something I'm missing that can make this possible.

Thank you for your consideration!
Regarding what you said, I suppose this feature seems like a pickle to implement at the moment. But I would be really glad if you return to it once you have a good and trustworthy plugin programmer on the team!

One small thing to note, I took a small look into the Redux plugin repo and it seems they have a bunch of experimental, unused target filters already available (Here)
If my understanding of what a "target filter" is correct, perhaps these can make things simpler (By maybe repurposing them as a "no-mic" role) if you decide to implement this feature in the future.
(This look was by no means extensive, so there might be some other features I missed already available in Redux that will make things easier)

Again, thanks for taking the time to look at this issue, and best of luck to you and the team!

 

[Madact]

Thank you for your consideration!
Regarding what you said, I suppose this feature seems like a pickle to implement at the moment. But I would be really glad if you return to it once you have a good and trustworthy plugin programmer on the team!

One small thing to note, I took a small look into the Redux plugin repo and it seems they have a bunch of experimental, unused target filters already available (Here)
If my understanding of what a "target filter" is correct, perhaps these can make things simpler (By maybe repurposing them as a "no-mic" role) if you decide to implement this feature in the future.
(This look was by no means extensive, so there might be some other features I missed already available in Redux that will make things easier)

Again, thanks for taking the time to look at this issue, and best of luck to you and the team!

It's an interesting find and if it develops we'll be sure to check it out and possibly give it a shot so long as the community is for this suggestion.

Thank you for understanding and this suggestion. It's very unfortunate about your situation and to be given that right would open up opportunities for more players who cannot speak to have the experience of a guard.

Just going to decline this based on current limitations. Perhaps this can be re-visited in the future!