Now I gotta answer everybody, once again, after all the times I did publicly and privately.
READ CAREFULLY
1.
No, usually people do not want to play Hale.
False: statistically, in the server there are more people who play as Hale then people who use to reset queue points. And that cannot be denied, it's objective stuff.
That's why I say you are opening a debate on something which is allowed and happens
very rarely, statistically again. But as you wish, ok.
2.
Max disconnects pre round [...] especially because it is HHH, forcing Chav to be HHH
I wish you had read point 1.b above carefully. The case you mentioned is something understandable by an admin and punishable, as I said.
3.
Chav finds it rude that he is forced to play with the worst and the most disliked hale when, if Max just played, Chav would not have got HHH.
That's a no-sense sentence. I may rebut with this: Max disconnected while having Saxton Hale as boss, so Chav gets saxton hale. If Max played, it was possible Chav got HHH next round, instead of a certain Saxton Hale. This explains why you can't base arguments on luck.
4.
It happens to be hale without warning, I know, happened to me too but it's not a tragedy let's be honest, for example, I hate being hale on military when the server is full but if it happens I play, I die, and then I have fun without problems the round after.
You are you. Every player has instead his own preferences of gaming. It's not a tragedy, and that's obvious, it's a game, but forcing people to play something they don't want to play is not something good, just because you and others do like being Hale. If that person could not reset points, what can he do, considering he doesn't want to play Hale? It's not his fault. Let's be clear on this, because you all seem to ignore the unlucky player who becomes Hale not by his fault: we can't force him to play as Hale.
5.
in my opinion afks and failhale should be punished more often.
I never use to be very harsh on fail hales and AFK people. Gmellow, the more we are harsh with these light things, the less we attract new users. I know, this may sound weird, but you regulars are used to the server and enjoy it. New players, if they get punished for so stupid things, they may take the server in antipathy and not join it anymore. It's right to punish, but for these things we need to be less harsh, so we can catch more new users. That's totally different from other rulebreakings where you totally show lack of respect.
6.
I would not expect this lack of maturity by an admin, but I'm used to that. I talked in private and publicly with players, all the times I've been asked. I never ignored requests of explanation. Still, after 100 times I uselessly keep repeating always the same things, I get a bit bored. I know why this is being fomented recently all of a sudden, and it's pretty sad, but that's not the point of the conversation.
I won't post here pvt stuff concerning this topic, but I'll provide to my superiors in case they ask.
7.
Let's not forget about the countless !resetq binds every VSH regular has.
I am a regular and I've never had a !resetq bind. But even if I had, that's not the point. You may have all keys binded with /resetq, still if you don't get warned in time, it's not your fault if you become Hale suddenly without your will. And we can't force players to play just because of a mistake by the system that doesn't warn them, if we know those players ALWAYS reset points after they get warned by the system and are always polite players.
8.
disconnecting before hale round starts just causes other people to be punished,
I already wrote above:
"Other people" do NOT get punished by this.
If a Hale disconnects in preround and any admin punishes the replacing Hale because he stands AFK and doesn't want to play, then the admin is wrong.
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MY PERSONAL OPINION AFTER WHAT I READ:
Don't think, guys, I did not understand what you said above. Before reading the solution I suggest, let's sum up:
- That's something very rare as I already said. I personally deal with about 4-5 cases per week of people who disconnect in pre-round, or suicide just after, or disconnect as soon as possible. I accept all of the three, the important is there is as less timewasting as possible. That's actually the proper thing to do if you couldn't reset points, instead of being AFK waiting for people to kill you in spawn. You said, even if you suicide/disconnect there is some timewasting. Surely, of course surely, less timewasting than letting that player being AFK. The replacing Hale may stand AFK (less usual) or may fight (more usual), but in more of 50% of cases we may waste less time!
- In those few cases that people disconnect in pre-round, we also have to consider the percentage of cases of replacing Hales who would have wanted to reset points, or who would have played as Hale anyway the next round. And as I wrote above, most of times people do play as Hale, statistically.
- Even if all this was considered failing as Hale,- and this is not actually as we said, but that's instead what to do in order to waste less time-, I would not punish it anyway so harshly. I mean, it should be (as I already said above several times with failing as hale in general) an offense repeated more and more times, intentionally. And considering the rarity of the case, you should be the unluckiest man on the Earth to be Hale on the 1st round all the times (to not getting warned)! So, I am not harsh also on obvious and non-contested "failing as Hale", the ones you all agree on.
What everybody here doesn't consider is: ok, but the person who could not reset points (not his fault) and does not want to play, how do we "safeguard" him? We CAN'T force a player to play as Hale without his will, and of course we can't let him being AFK because that would be timewasting+pointfarming for REDs.
SOLUTION:
I would agree with considering failing as Hale also the disconnecting in preround/suiciding as soon as possible. I'd be the first supporting this thing you all suggest.
BUT we need the !vsh toggle before.
If a player doesn't generally want to play as Hale, he can disable being Hale at all forever, one-time.
This would solve many problems. After the plugin has been added, this may be easier to manage:
If a player disconnects/suicides after he could not reset points, he gets a warning: it is failing as Hale after this rule-editing you suggest.
In the warning, he understands that he can use the command !vshtoggle. If he fails again more times for the same reason, then he starts getting punished.
In this way we "safeguard" POLITE players who become Hale by accident and decided till now to disconnect and waste less time, so now they can have a permament solution; and we can instead punish who intentionally leaves just to waste time or because he didn't like the boss, failing as Hale.
Still, I repeat, we need that !vshtoogle thing. Without it, this editing to rules can't be applied, for the reasons I've CLEARLY explained above.
We as staff already asked Kevin to add the !vshtoggle. I am the first one who'd need it.
If you want to help us, keep tagging Kevin during these days so you can convince him and add that plugin we actually need.