Just gonna dump all my pyro thoughts here:
All the flamethrower type of primaries deal garbage damage when you consider how close to hale you have to be to get the maximum damage output, dps drops immensely if you're hitting at max range + you are unlikely to hit all the flame particles this way. Airblast also kinda has an anti synergy with the flames... and you have no means of surviving a hit aside from phlog, unlike demoknights and spies who also like to stay close to hale.
You can use taunt crits to help but you either taunt very close to hale to get any crit time in, or you have to flare jump, which is now weaker than before.
Airblast nerf was deserved but I'm not sure if I like the implementation, I've always been a proponent of airblast cooldown.
Stock flamethrower should still have the lowest ammo cost, it's not the one with the cost penalties after all.
Degreaser should have been the enabler for combo pyro but there aren't really any weapons for this in vsh... so you end up with low damage primary with very expensive airblast and the switch speed that you don't really need.
Backburner still has the weird chargeable airblast thing going on... like if you hold down m2 it won't actually airblast until you release. I'm not sure if it actually increases the airblast force though. The description for this doesn't seem to appear anymore in the /haleclass screen in the version of vsh we are playing. Backburner's crits from behind are very underwhelming unless you are playing against an afk hale I guess.
Not quite sure how to buff these primaries yet.
Dragon's fury is a monster with crits and has decent range so at least it gets some use of taunt crits. I think the notable recovery time on airblast is neat, also if you just missed a shot you are unable to airblast. Very punishing if you mess up, it would be nice if it was bit more rewarding when landing consecutive hits.
Phlog I quite like in vsh even though it has so many downsides to it. It lacks crits on flare guns and has it's damage halved if not under the effect of mmph, this includes afterburn as well... My guess is that the vsh devs couldn't figure out how to change the damage needed to get a full charge on it, so they just crippled the damage.
The damage resistance is great, it actually lets you get close to hale without worry. Having to taunt to activate it is sort of a mixed bag. You are stuck in place for a few seconds which eats into the charge time and gives any competent hale plenty of time to jump away, or even a chance to line up goomba on you.
Since you are ubered during the taunt, you may use it to block hale's way in some situations, as well as continue body blocking him with your damage resistance.
Despite the secondary fire not working when stunned from rage, you can still activate mmph with the taunt key, which is very good.
You can use taunt crits to help but you either taunt very close to hale to get any crit time in, or you have to flare jump, which is now weaker than before.
Airblast nerf was deserved but I'm not sure if I like the implementation, I've always been a proponent of airblast cooldown.
Stock flamethrower should still have the lowest ammo cost, it's not the one with the cost penalties after all.
Degreaser should have been the enabler for combo pyro but there aren't really any weapons for this in vsh... so you end up with low damage primary with very expensive airblast and the switch speed that you don't really need.
Backburner still has the weird chargeable airblast thing going on... like if you hold down m2 it won't actually airblast until you release. I'm not sure if it actually increases the airblast force though. The description for this doesn't seem to appear anymore in the /haleclass screen in the version of vsh we are playing. Backburner's crits from behind are very underwhelming unless you are playing against an afk hale I guess.
Not quite sure how to buff these primaries yet.
Dragon's fury is a monster with crits and has decent range so at least it gets some use of taunt crits. I think the notable recovery time on airblast is neat, also if you just missed a shot you are unable to airblast. Very punishing if you mess up, it would be nice if it was bit more rewarding when landing consecutive hits.
Phlog I quite like in vsh even though it has so many downsides to it. It lacks crits on flare guns and has it's damage halved if not under the effect of mmph, this includes afterburn as well... My guess is that the vsh devs couldn't figure out how to change the damage needed to get a full charge on it, so they just crippled the damage.
The damage resistance is great, it actually lets you get close to hale without worry. Having to taunt to activate it is sort of a mixed bag. You are stuck in place for a few seconds which eats into the charge time and gives any competent hale plenty of time to jump away, or even a chance to line up goomba on you.
Since you are ubered during the taunt, you may use it to block hale's way in some situations, as well as continue body blocking him with your damage resistance.
Despite the secondary fire not working when stunned from rage, you can still activate mmph with the taunt key, which is very good.
Detonator nerf was justified imo, it was just another flavor of mantreads in its previous state.
People aren't talking about scorch shot rn given the state of pyro but I distinctly remember it being fairly disliked in the past as it's another source of special kind of knockback (think FaN and loose cannon), I've always thought that it should be purely a tool for knockback and be lacking for mobility... detonator jump should be superior to scorch shot jump.
I would love for the flare gun to be its own weapon, separate from detonator. Make it deal lets say double damage against burning target, this along with the crit boost would make it deal 180 per hit. You would have no explosive jumping ofc.
Thermal thruster would be nice as another mobility option but you know how it is. If we are not getting it unbanned it should at least get replaced by detonator, rn if I have it equiped I just have to play the round with no secondary weapon.
Shotguns are pretty worthless in vsh overall. Here's some simple ideas I guess.
Stock: Should deal extra damage and/or minicrits vs burning target.
Reserve Shooter: Was actually a viable choice for pyro in vsh, once upon a time. Make it work against airblasted target, and deal full crits instead of minicrits.
Panic Attack: Make it deal fire damage and afterburn, this would allow it to charge phlog, giving you another option for secondary besides the flare guns.
I've seen other servers have gas passer with the explode on ignite upgrade from mvm which looks pretty fun. It would basically deal 350 damage to hale if no changes are made to it. This would recharge it half way of the 700 dmg needed to fully charge it again, which seems fair. Takes longer to get it initially but if you manage to trigger it, you get the next one sooner.
Manmelter has faster projectile speed and infinite ammo, secondary fire is useless. Despite it's upsides, it's hard to justify using it currently, flare jumping is just that good. It's always felt like a more snipery secondary when I've tried using it so we could lean more into that. My idea is to give it damage scaling similar to crusader's crossbow, so damage is higher on long distance hits.
People aren't talking about scorch shot rn given the state of pyro but I distinctly remember it being fairly disliked in the past as it's another source of special kind of knockback (think FaN and loose cannon), I've always thought that it should be purely a tool for knockback and be lacking for mobility... detonator jump should be superior to scorch shot jump.
I would love for the flare gun to be its own weapon, separate from detonator. Make it deal lets say double damage against burning target, this along with the crit boost would make it deal 180 per hit. You would have no explosive jumping ofc.
Thermal thruster would be nice as another mobility option but you know how it is. If we are not getting it unbanned it should at least get replaced by detonator, rn if I have it equiped I just have to play the round with no secondary weapon.
Shotguns are pretty worthless in vsh overall. Here's some simple ideas I guess.
Stock: Should deal extra damage and/or minicrits vs burning target.
Reserve Shooter: Was actually a viable choice for pyro in vsh, once upon a time. Make it work against airblasted target, and deal full crits instead of minicrits.
Panic Attack: Make it deal fire damage and afterburn, this would allow it to charge phlog, giving you another option for secondary besides the flare guns.
I've seen other servers have gas passer with the explode on ignite upgrade from mvm which looks pretty fun. It would basically deal 350 damage to hale if no changes are made to it. This would recharge it half way of the 700 dmg needed to fully charge it again, which seems fair. Takes longer to get it initially but if you manage to trigger it, you get the next one sooner.
Manmelter has faster projectile speed and infinite ammo, secondary fire is useless. Despite it's upsides, it's hard to justify using it currently, flare jumping is just that good. It's always felt like a more snipery secondary when I've tried using it so we could lean more into that. My idea is to give it damage scaling similar to crusader's crossbow, so damage is higher on long distance hits.
Powerjack, backscratcher and third degree are fine as far as I'm concerned.
Axtinguisher should always have been sort of a pyro mg/backstab, though I would definitely not make it be that kind of damage scaling. Currently it functions identical to fire axe. If it were to be restored to its vanilla funtionality, it would deal up to 371 crit damage if hale has 10 seconds of afterburn stacked on him, and the hit would extinguish him. I think this is a fine way for this weapon to work, maybe bump up the scaling so you can get to 500-600 dmg range.
Not entirely sure what I would do with sharpened volcano fragment, homewrecker, neon annihilator or hot hand.
SVF could just up the afterburn damage of your other weapons. Although relying on afterburn kinda sucks as other pyros would ruin this for you.
Homewrecker could just deal more knockback, it is a big ass hammer after all.
Had some wilder ideas for the rest but don't know how feasible they are so I'll leave them for now.
Axtinguisher should always have been sort of a pyro mg/backstab, though I would definitely not make it be that kind of damage scaling. Currently it functions identical to fire axe. If it were to be restored to its vanilla funtionality, it would deal up to 371 crit damage if hale has 10 seconds of afterburn stacked on him, and the hit would extinguish him. I think this is a fine way for this weapon to work, maybe bump up the scaling so you can get to 500-600 dmg range.
Not entirely sure what I would do with sharpened volcano fragment, homewrecker, neon annihilator or hot hand.
SVF could just up the afterburn damage of your other weapons. Although relying on afterburn kinda sucks as other pyros would ruin this for you.
Homewrecker could just deal more knockback, it is a big ass hammer after all.
Had some wilder ideas for the rest but don't know how feasible they are so I'll leave them for now.
