Completed Tf2/VSH Suggestion about hale nerf(s) (1 Viewer)

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Jiggly

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Aug 2, 2015
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Hello, my name is Doc (or now Jiggly) and i have been playing on Panda community servers for about 2 years now, mostly VSH. Here i learned the basics about the gamemode and am still enjoing playing on the server. Sadly, now that i can hope to say that im one of the 'better' players, i can say that everytime i play as the Hale i found it laughtable easy to win against the enemy team. This has many causes, may it be bugs because the plugin does not get updated or just balance failures, but i wan't so suggest some changes wich could potentally make the server more enjoyable and/or more entertaining for the already 'pro' playerbase.

I'd like to start off with an very big concern of mine for a long time, wich is in fact the cooldown on the Bravejump ability (or superjump) of bosses exept the Headless Horseless Horseman.
As of right now, you have an around 5 sec cooldown on 100% charge, of wich 2,5 will be dimished by the time you land. For the slow ones, that pretty much means, that hale is able to strafe almost half of the time at high speed in air, avoiding damage and being able to pick targets one by one without much worry or actual skill, wich is not the point of this gamemode. The boss should use his Bravejump to either escape, pick a key target, traverse distance fast or initiate an fight, but as of right now you can spam it, wich in my opinion bores the game quite alot if the hale is decent. Base on the reasons i gave, I Would suggest increasing the cooldown to 10 or even more seconds to re-establish the reason it does exist.

Done with the Cooldown-based Ability, we litterly can move right to the next one, the Revenge (or Rage) ability.Unlike the Bravejump, Rage is based on an meter wich fills up by gaining damage, wich upon release gives enemys in an specific radius an lesser stun effect (like sandman at mid range). This radius is amplified by 2 bosses, the HHH gets additional 25% to compensate for his lack of Bravejump, while the Christian Brutal Sniper gets and 75% reduction to compensate for his gain of an upgraded bow. Rage was implementet as an ability to deal with powerfull team combos like Engineer+ airblast Pyro(s), multiple Heavys, Medics in groups or just an generall punish if they stand close together. As of right now, with 20 Players on the server an the set Hp scaling of the hale, he can rage approx. every 2.7th player (given they deal the damge required on average to win), wich can never be justified by the reasons mentioned above. That being said, i suggest using the option to make Rage based on Percentages again (every 25%, 3 rages) wich increases just like hp scaling rounded on 1st decimal (etg 12+ 4 rages, 22+ 5) to make it worth (or even necessary) to time/use it well. CBS still could use special treatment.

Next up are not necessary balance changes, but rather suggestions to fix anoying bugs (atleast i hope they are). Since they don't belong to this section i will only scratch them.

1st: Crits on egg-pickup as the Easter Bunny
Following the Vsh plugin Bosses are never supposed to ever get access to critical damage exept on round end or cap, both wich do not have impact on the actual game. Giving the Easter Bunny the ability to get crit boosts by his own eggs, he not only breaks the carefully chosen Boss damage of 202 (195 for HHH), but also crits all his Eggnades wich are fired on rage, making the special property of clearing close rooms and sentry nests to an massive killing maschine wich paried with constant rage just makes him op in small to medium maps. This should be fairly easily fixed, especially since it did not occured on my testing of the plugin itself.
2nd: CBS not being able to properly free himself from being taunt stunned
While on the FF2 servers a common bug, it should not occur on vsh. Not much to say but no idea why all other bosses can do so.
3rd: HHH sometimes stuck on player after teleportet
Again, not much to say, should be fixed by updating the plugin/restoring it since it was fixed a long time ago.
 
1st: Crits on egg-pickup as the Easter Bunny
Following the Vsh plugin Bosses are never supposed to ever get access to critical damage exept on round end or cap, both wich do not have impact on the actual game. Giving the Easter Bunny the ability to get crit boosts by his own eggs, he not only breaks the carefully chosen Boss damage of 202 (195 for HHH), but also crits all his Eggnades wich are fired on rage, making the special property of clearing close rooms and sentry nests to an massive killing maschine wich paried with constant rage just makes him op in small to medium maps. This should be fairly easily fixed, especially since it did not occured on my testing of the plugin itself.
Agreeing, even if I'm not a real VSH main... (the amount of eggnades per rage, is too damn high already, critical hits equipped makes this rage probably the OPest there). My opinion doesn't count tho, that's why I'm invoking the presence of the real VSH admins.
2nd: CBS not being able to properly free himself from being taunt stunned
While on the FF2 servers a common bug, it should not occur on vsh. Not much to say but no idea why all other bosses can do so.
Wait a moment, so CBS cannot just use a "dance taunt" (kaoztsky kick/conga/mannrobics) in the way that his stunners get fooled and fail to stun again?

@LieväAutismi @Blutz @Danny @iceviet
 
@Patmosphere No, he can use moving taunts just fine, I mean that in vsh all the bosses should be able to use rage to break their taunt stun no matter the situation at an instant similar to the spawn cabinet and scout's bonk buff or soliders buff (it refreshes you're caracter). CBS seems to lack that for no reason...
 
The only one I'm not a fan of is the doubled superjump charge time. Rest is mainly a matter of how.
 
The stun with the sandman on hale is just a think that is nice to stop hale for a sec.
But i think the CBS works just fine all the other hales break taunts when they use there rage ?
But that 25% 3 rages thing is a little bit op in my eyes.
Rage gives you a dmg reduce to when you active it.
 
@iceviet It is not the sandman stun i am talking about, it is the stun applied if you hit with certaint taunts (huntsman, ubersaw and gunslinger) wich apply a stun, and, if the hale is not knocked back during the stun the taunter can always reapply the stun since it takes longer to break than to taunt (especially with Huntsman), making it only a matter of time until CBS dies (not everyone has movement taunts).
Also @EvoWarrior5 , thank you for letting me know, after some testing with friends we found 10 sec Bravejump-cooldown a bit long, good advice!
 
After some thinking it may be also worthy to add an rage at the 10% hp mark wich doesnt get affectet by the rage ou get every 25% hp missing, also the total amount of rages could be nerfed if the server has <10 players (such as every 40% missing (2 total) or just one at 50%.
 
We use to have someone who could make these changes but now we don't. Unless Kevin can do these on his own I don't see this going anywhere but I'll put it on anyways.

Is there any chance of listing a simple 1 2 3 list for me?
 
1st: Update the plugin
2nd: Reduce the amount of rages an hale gets for N amount of health missing
3rd: disable crits for hale's team globally (not even forced by taunt or eggs etc., it was never intented)
4th: Increase Bravejump cooldown (10 sec recommended, may adjust for skill level)
5th: Fix bugs (by updating the plugin)
6th: Was not in initial thread since this was supposed to affect hale only but remove the crits buff from demo shields (and make the primary mini-crit) as a 100% crit grenade launcher is just way too op, again, this is so in the updated version...
 
I never play this gamemode but I'll have a go at solving this ;)
https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=146884

2nd: Reduce the amount of rages an hale gets for N amount of health missing
Seems like a cvar setting to me: hale_rage_damage (default 800) - "Damaged needed for Rage activation" not sure if that's what you mean

3rd: disable crits for hale's team globally (not even forced by taunt or eggs etc., it was never intented)
Also a cvar: hale_crits 0

4th: Increase Bravejump cooldown (10 sec recommended, may adjust for skill level)
Doesn't look like the creator implemented a cvar for that, but there is a hale_jumpchargetime multiplier in the source code, so if you guys want, I can try to implement it.

6th: Was not in initial thread since this was supposed to affect hale only but remove the crits buff from demo shields (and make the primary mini-crit) as a 100% crit grenade launcher is just way too op, again, this is so in the updated version...
If I understand correctly, demomen with a (broken?) shield receive crits? Changing this to minicrits should be easy.
 
Thank you @Evert ; but the link you provided is outdated (https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=244209), also, yes, if an demonman equips any shield broken or not he gets crits for primary and changing it should be easy, but this could be done automatically by using the updated version of the link i provided, also hale_rage_damage is the right command i ment
 
Thank you @Evert ; but the link you provided is outdated (https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=244209), also, yes, if an demonman equips any shield broken or not he gets crits for primary and changing it should be easy, but this could be done automatically by using the updated version of the link i provided, also hale_rage_damage is the right command i ment

Ok so most of your suggestion can be accomplished by simply changing cvars:
hale_shield_crits 0
hale_crits 0
hale_rage_damage (def. 3500.0 - Damaged needed for Rage activation.)

The jump recharge time adaptation would still require source code edits, it would seem.
 
Alright, thanks for your support, hope the will add them soon
 
i'll check onto this once i'm awake again - just to let y guys know.
 
trying to figure out the crits bug, might have it fixed till the evening as its a bug in the code itself.
 
changes are in place, only bug left is the crit bug on the bunny hale, will provide a fix as said above in the evening hopefully.

also sorry for the huge delay on this.
 
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