Completed [JB] Tweak to the ghosting rule. (1 Viewer)

[_Black]

-Allow ghosting of clear delayers (hiding in cells for multiple minutes) or if they literally havent tried to rebel whatsoever and just do some random minigame.
-Incase of last red / guard their position may be ghosted on the full minute mark. (In hindsight this might not be such a good idea because they would be walking in circles.)

However, I would still love different optinions/solutions to this "problem".

 

[zevs]

the only people who vote no are gonna be the delayers

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

I'm going to be completely honest: as much I would like the idea of being able to ghost clear delayers, there are few unfortunately major problems that would make this hard to implement.

First, many people have different interpretations of what's considered "delaying"; some are lax about it and consider only going off into an area to hide and not do anything to be true delaying; others however are incredibly impatient and consider even just trailing off for a few seconds to do something "non-rebelling" enough to be considered delaying. Basically, we as a community do not have any sort of general consensus on what is enough to be considered delaying. My biggest concern is that the latter group in particular would use this change to ghost the immediate second they see a RED start "delaying", even if it's just trailing off for a few seconds. Adding on to this, there are many (MANY) situations where REDs (or BLUs) aren't actively TRYING to delay, they're just simply lost trying to find a guard to kill (or vice versa).

Second, even if we try to set a certain amount of time delaying where a RED can then be legally ghosted, this will be difficult to enforce, most especially when there is a large amount of REDs alive, most prominent when the warden dies prematurely and it becomes a freeday, particularly when it's last guard. There's no way to spectate all the REDs at once so if you are spectating one RED and choose to spectate another and see them hiding in a corner already, you aren't gonna know how long they were there for.

If we can somehow find a way to implement this while figuring out solutions to curb (or ease) my above points I'm all for it, but as it is now this would be too hard to enforce.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

We could implement beacons on lgka every 30 seconds

 

[SirKrookodile]

Yeah, unfortunately unless there's a clear definition of what counts as rebelling, as Denzel said there will be issues on a case to case basis. Either we clearly define in the rules what is rebelling and what isn't. Say "30 seconds or more of inactive rebelling" could work. But as it stands it's too vague for me to vote yes on.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

Yeah, unfortunately unless there's a clear definition of what counts as rebelling, as Denzel said there will be issues on a case to case basis. Either we clearly define in the rules what is rebelling and what isn't. Say "30 seconds or more of inactive rebelling" could work. But as it stands it's too vague for me to vote yes on.

i can just say "it's been 30 seconds guys he's not rebelling!!" and who is gonna fact check me?

 

[SirKrookodile]

i can just say "it's been 30 seconds guys he's not rebelling!!" and who is gonna fact check me?

I don't think it's perfect since it's hard to define inactive rebelling as well. I don't think there's no good solution that doesn't involve a players own definition of something.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

I don't think it's perfect since it's hard to define inactive rebelling as well. I don't think there's no good solution that doesn't involve a players own definition of something.

exact reason why the last suggestion regarding ghosting got declined!

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

I feel what warrants a "Clear delayer" could be generally agreed upon, however I prefer that decision be made via reports.
Intentional and annoying delayers tend to be easily reported with spectate, and then the decision can be turned to the admins.
What is legal vs illegal ghosting becomes much more blurred with this implementation. As Denzel said, what people define as delaying comes down to the individual's patience and familiarity with the rules.
Overall I'm a fan, but I think the current system of reporting delayers works fine, and leaves the impactful decisions in experienced hands.

 

[koe]

I like the idea of being able to ghost out people who arent actively rebelling/delaying the round, no one wants to sit out for more than 5 minutes watching two random kids walk around a map they dont know anything about or have a red constantly be teleporting back to cells/hiding in a spot the blue just does not know they are in because they have no information.

However, I feel this could be easily abused and nitpicked to whatever a player deems as delaying and that player's patience. Some players will wait 2 minutes other will wait longer or shorter depending and that leads a lot of case by case situations where "Was the player REALLY delaying" starts becoming the main question and blurs the definition of delaying more and more.
As it currently stands I think this is too vague a vote and too vague a change to properly vote on personally.

 

[Bananawastaken]

Let me speak for the people piccolo!

Declined - Allow people to ghost people who arent actively rebelling after a clear warning or two.

If you're allowed to ghost someone that is afk (aka delaying the round) you should be allowed to ghost people that are not actively rebelling, or in other words delaying the round. They both carry the same principle, in fact delayers are worse considering they can be anywhere that isn't cells...

www.panda-community.com

Declined - Ghosting blue delayers

Not running it through a poll this time because yea, but basically what I'm proposing is that while people will just say "use call admin" or just report it, the stance there is already as weak as a tower of cards. Not only are you just prolonging everyone's suffering by watching the last guard...

www.panda-community.com

Its always interesting to see the same concerns come up over and over but I strongly feel like this would make JB a lot better, I am willing 2 make the trade off for being like, 20 percent unfairly ghosted, 80 percent save 5 minutes of a round.

We will obviously focus on making this easier for the playerbase to understand, but ultimately we wont know how well it works until its implemented

 

[Pure]

Of course there are some cases where delaying is obvious: a red spy coffin taunting in a corner not doing anything. On the other hand, I don't think it should be left to the whole server's interpretation. Someone could just be extremely impatient and ghost them for "delaying", when they're walking around actively trying to do a secret to get a red victory. I can see this happening frequently on maps like volcano, where it's very large and so a lot of distance between secret objectives.

I'd be for the beacon thing except the LGKA "alert" still goes off if it's just the warden alive and someone dies

 

[Bananawastaken]

Hello everyone, the team is really iffy on this and I would like to think the new anti delay plugin will change a few things for some voters, so I am going to be resetting the poll, if a clear majority still persists we will go through with the change.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

Just so anyone might want to know, after warden lock, in 3 mins blues will get slayed.

 

[screechy]

Back in the day on SG, if someone was ghosting and a clear majority of spectators said so in chat, it was tacitly allowed to ghost. Almost like a gentleman's agreement. I feel like something similar would be a decent compromise without explicitly having regulations and processes in place for delayers.

 

[SirKrookodile]

Back in the day on SG, if someone was ghosting and a clear majority of spectators said so in chat, it was tacitly allowed to ghost. Almost like a gentleman's agreement. I feel like something similar would be a decent compromise without explicitly having regulations and processes in place for delayers.

This is inherently flawed since, it requires somebody to ghost as a prerequisite, not only that but then everyone else would have to agree that it's fine? This just means somebody has to risk getting muted when they ghost and hope that everyone else agrees that it was fine?

 

[screechy]

This is inherently flawed since, it requires somebody to ghost as a prerequisite, not only that but then everyone else would have to agree that it's fine? This just means somebody has to risk getting muted when they ghost and hope that everyone else agrees that it was fine?

No, you misunderstood, nobody would ghost, only say someone was delaying. For example, the warden would go "we have one rebeller" and like four people would say they were delaying and if after like a minute or so of people getting annoyed eventually people would ghost after a majority decision of sorts. Not everything has to be decided to quill and ink, sometimes gentleman's agreements work well for situations with lots of variance like this

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

Personally, I would love to see an alternative where beacons are applied at 3mins instead of slaying but thats just me

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

Personally, I would love to see an alternative where beacons are applied at 3mins instead of slaying but thats just me

I would rather just start a new round sooner than watch blues kill reds after 3 minutes, but that's just me.

 

[hehe troll]

i can just say "it's been 30 seconds guys he's not rebelling!!" and who is gonna fact check me?

add a plugin that enables beacon, or prints "[TF2Jail] [name] has been afk for more than 30s." after 30s of inactivity on red team (this will go only right trust me guys)