Completed [JB] Remove AFM from the AFK freeze order (1 Viewer)

[Cowboy]

Howdy doo Jailbreak Dwellers

This is a prospected rule change that I've been cooking for quite a while and finally decided to pull the trigger on it.

Currently with the current Afk freeze order, "Away from Mouse" is currently applied within the order. Here's how the term stands as it is now.

AFK stands for “away from keyboard.” It’s also implied with this that you AFM “away from mouse” on this server. If a Warden tells you to AFK freeze he wants you to completely freeze.
Taunting is considered AFK as long as the taunt loops without a natural ending.

For this proposed change, I think its time we removed AFM from the AFK freeze terminology.

AFK stands for “away from keyboard.” It’s also implied with this that you AFM “away from mouse” on this server. If a Warden tells you to AFK freeze he wants you to remain still. However you may otherwise look around using your mouse unless told to face a certain direction. Taunting is considered AFK as long as the taunt loops without a natural ending.

I get it.

This is a huge change that would take a lot of adjustment, but I believe in the long run this will help the server and introduce a lot of quality of life for new players as well as players who might accidently bump their mouse during the order.

Why this change?
Currently within the ruleset, it's completely in line with the rules to kill a red for moving their mouse slightly to the left during an afk freeze order. This is simply not within the lines of the Panda JB Philosophy where reds should be killed in minigames and not by wardens orders.

New players will also have a much easier time adjusting, as the afk freeze order is by far the most damaging thing to them when they are just learning the game. I cannot imagine the amount of players we mightve lost because they join a game, hear an order that vaguely makes sense and is then killed for slightly moving their mouse and forced to sit out an entire ten minute round.

How can i control the prisoners from now on as blue?
With this rule change, you will not be able to completely restrict somebody from using their mouse. However you may implement an order where you can tell reds to face a certain direction (Towards cells, a certain minigame, armory ect.) This will restrict their eyeline in a certain direction, but will give them a little leeway that as long as they are facing the general direction, they can move their mouse.


Feel free to leave behind your feedback and perhaps some ideas on how to clarify/change this suggestion to fit the servers needs. I look forward to hearing your feedback.

Signed,

Cowboy

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

Would this seperate the order?

 

[Cowboy]

No it would not.

AFM would be completely removed.

However, you will still have access to ways to restrict the eyeline of reds as stated in this portion.

With this rule change, you will not be able to completely restrict somebody from using their mouse. However you may implement an order where you can tell reds to face a certain direction (Towards cells, a certain minigame, armory ect.) This will restrict their eyeline in a certain direction, but will give them a little leeway that as long as they are facing the general direction, they can move their mouse.

 

[EnderAsteroid]

Why not just have AFK be away from keyboard and AFK Freeze be no keyboard and no mouse

Also make non-looping taunts count as being afk because that rule is retarded

 

[Cowboy]

Why not just have AFK be away from keyboard and AFK Freeze be no keyboard and no mouse

Complicating the rules by adding/separating an additional term is not the objective of this rule change.

This rule change is to assist new players, not have them be forced to learn a new terminology.

 

[Dr. Meatloaf]

Complicating the rules by adding/separating an additional term is not the objective of this rule change.

This rule change is to assist new players, not have them be forced to learn a new terminology.

I would personally also prefer that wardens still be able to say “AFM” I don’t see why this rule change has to necessarily remove that. Maybe that option can be added to the poll?

Granted I understand that having to learn “AFM” may confuse new players, but they probably only have to get killed once to learn, and personally I don’t think many wardens are actually going to say “AFM” often.

Furthermore restricting wardens from saying “AFM” also is likely to confuse new wardens from other servers where saying “AFM” is common. Therefore I think our server should split AFK/AFM like most other servers do.

 

[Cowboy]

Therefore I think our server should split AFK/AFM like most other servers do.

Currently the only server that does this is Wonderland.tf and they are currently dead in the water.

As for other servers, currently the only other active jailbreak server other than us is Blackwonder, which has the same rule as us which combines AFK/AFM together.

I don’t think many wardens are actually going to say “AFM” often.

No they likely wont, which makes it sort of redundant to even seperate them.

I'd like to hear some hard feedback on why AFM still needs to exist, I believe that i've detailed out an order in which wardens are still able to control the sightline of reds.

The whole reason for this suggestion is to reduce the number of incidents like this.

This downright should not be happening.

 

[tehlinx]

so would this just separate afk and afm?

 

[Cowboy]

so would this just separate afk and afm?

No it would not.

AFM would be completely removed.

For this proposed change, I think its time we removed AFM from the AFK freeze terminology.

With this rule change, you will not be able to completely restrict somebody from using their mouse. However you may implement an order where you can tell reds to face a certain direction

 

[LilSpaceMan]

Can we not have two separate orders afm and afk

 

[Cowboy]

Can we not have two separate orders afm and afk

The suggestion is not to have two separate orders.

 

[jkouts5]

The amount of times I've seen new players fill the chat with their complaints that they never moved and were killed for it since they did not know that AFM was implied with AFK is baffling. This will help new players get used to panda more easily since its the summer season and more players will join.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

Would it be possible to add a vote on to see if we could separate the order into two considering that a lot of people are asking for it as a compromise?

 

[Zee]

I mean the suggestion isnt saying to just remove the afm order all together, this i think only removes the implied order of afm when saying afk freeze. just removing afm all together would be weird

Would it be possible to add a vote on to see if we could separate the order into two considering that a lot of people are asking for it as a compromise?

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

I mean the suggestion isnt saying to just remove the afm order all together, this i think only removes the implied order of afm when saying afk freeze. just removing afm all together would be weird

He's specified several times to remove afm entirely

 

[Cowboy]

just removing afm all together would be weird

Can we not have two separate orders afm and afk

would personally also prefer that wardens still be able to say “AFM” I don’t see why this rule change has to necessarily remove that.

Why not just have AFK be away from keyboard and AFK Freeze be no keyboard and no mouse

So I understand there is some want for the terms to be separated, however I'm not getting any sort of clear feedback on why AFM still needs to exist. I'd be more than willing to add in a third option, but as I mentioned before I still need a clear argument on why we still need to retain AFM altogether.

Here is a quote from @Semicolon Backslash on why the separation should not exist

"Separating the orders doesn’t solve many of core problems that the current AFK order has it just adds more words for the warden to have to say which can lead to more confusion if a warden forgets to say it and then starts enforcing it. It still leaves afk taunts in a pay2win state where just by having them you are able to look around the area. It creates another term new players have to learn (which AFM is not nearly as universally recognized as AFK)." ~ Semicolon Backslash

Semi Pretty much hits the nail on the head here. Adding/separating the term is just going to add more confusion rather than removing it. I believe a healthy compromise is just outright keeping the rules as it is rather than a third option.

Here is my own argument against AFM, I'll try not to add in points I've already covered so ill go ahead and add additional points.

If we keep AFM, We are gonna keep having the same incidents as the hehe troll video

Spoiler: Hehe Troll Video

The fact that its currently allowed to kill a red for slightly moving their mouse is... for a lack of a better term.

Utter bullshit.

If i was a new player and i encountered this, there would be no way i would even give this game mode a chance. It's completely unacceptable that we even allow this. Allowing AFM to continue to be an acceptable order will only allow scenarios like this to continue. Sure, restricting freelooking gives convenience to the warden, but it gives a huge disservice to the reds for having to be killed for making such a minuscule mistake.

I have spoken to Ex-Wonderland players who have AFM + AFK freeze separated and many have complained at the fact that it adds extra orders and they find it tiring having to say it majority of their orders.

Now let's go back to why i don't think the third option is really feasible.

This whole entire suggestion is meant to be friendly to new players, separating terms and adding layers to an order complicates it further more than just combining them. I need a firm argument from somebody that can articulate why separating AFM from AFK freeze is better than just having them stay combined before i add a third option.

Also to Preface, I have taken a great deal of time to write down all my thoughts on this suggestion. I am asking just for the bare minimum requirement of reading through this post fully before replying. I do not feel like continuing to answer questions that are already answered in this post or my earlier post.

Again, I appreciate your feedback and thank you for the support.

 

[salguod]

I think this is a good idea, playing exclusively red throughout my jb run, I’ve had a lot of annoyance with moving just a little bit just so I can be killed by a blu. Especially considering I have bad mouse drift out of my control. Also just a personal preference but I don’t like to do a stupid taunt just to look around

Although I am on the side that afm should be removed rather than separated from afk, I feel like some people want it to be separated because (from a blu perspective) if the reds have freedom to look around, they’d be able to find loopholes to get away from the red team (although you can just taunt). Also, if there is are orders to restrict taunts, mediguns, etc. why shouldn’t there be an order to restrict free looking fully instead of a certain direction while afk if this suggestion goes through? Although there are obvious reasons to restrict things like mediguns because medics can Uber, there still maybe shouldn’t be a reason for a warden to restrict something like that especially when they can even restrict things like jumping(I think) for no apparent reason.

Again, I’d like to reiterate that I agree with what was said above by Cowboy + Semi, I just thought I’d throw out some random reasons I thought of just because no one else seemed to give a reason why they should be separate + why not. Ppl should still feel free to give an argument why they should be separate tho, do not let my post discourage you from doing so if it did somehow

 

[crubf]

ok but would this seperate the two orders

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

Rule change will be implemented.

Also does this separate the orders?