Declined [JB] Punishment against false orders (1 Viewer)

[Piedra]

There's been for a while a confusion/loophole around the rules regarding microphone use in jailbreak, just today the guard main kenya got permanently guardbanned (unfairly) over an accidental MFK caused by a fake order given by a red, Zenon.

I was warden and at the moment there was micspamming going on, where then Zenon gave the false order and led kenya due to confusion to kill the people who DIDNT follow it

Denzel himself, who guardbanned Kenya, confirmed it was unfair for her to be punished and zenon let free with no punishment

So why is this not against the rules? It is basically griefing and leads to things like mass freekills and unfair guardbans as demonstrated today.

(safe to mention this has happened TWICE just this week)

 

[Piedra]

And on behalf of @Kenya Snake~ , please remove the guardban, she was very unpleased about the situation and said she wouldn't appeal because she knew it would get rejected and it is just unfair that she has to deal with that over something that was not her fault

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

I did not say the guardban was unfair. I said I disagree with some of the rules, but being an admin I must enforce them and not show any bias. I never said anything about her guardban being "unfair".

Kenya needs to appeal this herself if she wants a chance of her teamban being removed.

I'm going to just leave it at that I believe this teamban was justified. We have no rules stating REDs can't give false orders, except if it becomes to the point of overtalking the warden, and although I know Kenya had no intent to MFK and was unintentional, this is the second time this has happened with her (in only a week too), and as an admin I have to follow stacking procedures (6 hours for first accidental MFK and perma for second).

I highly HIGHLY (as in 100%) doubt Zenon was trying to get ANY of the BLUs to MFK, his intent was likely to get REDs who foolishly followed his false orders to be killed, which 99% of REDs who give false orders intend to do. Kenya is a regular, and I don't think Zenon should be held responsible if she can't listen closely enough or check the bottom-right part of her screen to see who was speaking.

 

[Piedra]

I did not say the guardban was unfair. I said I disagree with some of the rules, but being an admin I must enforce them and not show any bias. I never said anything about her guardban being "unfair".

Apologies for the confusion, I respect how you acted as an admin yet there's still an issue with how it was handled

Kenya is a regular, and I don't think Zenon should be held responsible if she can't listen closely enough or check the bottom-right part of her screen to see who was speaking.

As I stated before, there was a lot of micspamming going on at the moment due to the "fish" joke going on, which obviously would make people confused on who is talking, even people besides kenya

have no rules stating REDs can't give false orders, except if it becomes to the point of overtalking the warden

That's the point of this post, to make it against the rules to order fake orders so we can avoid these situations in the future.

Zenon was trying to get ANY of the BLUs to MFK, his intent was likely to get REDs who foolishly followed his false orders to be killed, which 99% of REDs who give false orders intend to do.

Isn't that just as shitty and with intent to grief as getting blues to MFK? It is still very annoying and should still be looked down upon

Kenya needs to appeal this herself if she wants a chance of her teamban being removed.

I thought it back and I agree with this, apologies for getting into that topic without permission.

While giving false orders can be funny, it isn't most of the time, so I don't know why this is tolerated as it easily leads to these situations.

 

[Cowboy]

As Denzel Mentioned, we cannot accept any sort of appeal not made by her. If she believes her punishment to be unjust she can make the appeal.

As for the suggestion, I'll go ahead and start a poll with some ways on how to handle this new rule.

Personally, Im torn between the two sides. While on one hand, I think its 100% the blues responsibility to watch out on who is giving the orders. Its also becoming a problem because reds are overtalking warden and it confuses new players and i generally don't believe these trick order tactics fall in line with the spirit of the game. Im personally for just making it straight up KOS to give false orders.

 

[Bored gamer]

Apologies for the confusion, I respect how you acted as an admin yet there's still an issue with how it was handled


As I stated before, there was a lot of micspamming going on at the moment due to the "fish" joke going on, which obviously would make people confused on who is talking, even people besides kenya


That's the point of this post, to make it against the rules to order fake orders so we can avoid these situations in the future.


Isn't that just as shitty and with intent to grief as getting blues to MFK? It is still very annoying and should still be looked down upon


I thought it back and I agree with this, apologies for getting into that topic without permission.

While giving false orders can be funny, it isn't most of the time, so I don't know why this is tolerated as it easily leads to these situations.

i feel like saying that zenon does say false orders almost every round he is on red

 

[Mehgend]

I do believe that no guard ban should be permanent for this.

But guards should be paying attention to who’s giving orders. I guess if the wardens being overtalked, then that’s different, but a lot of the times this isn’t necessarily the case.

I really see no reason to change anything about this as it usually boils down to just paying attention. Wether it be a red or a blu.

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

To give my thoughts on this suggestion, with how often some REDs give false orders, I personally believe the RED should be KOS IF their false orders leads to the death of at least one RED, whether the RED(s) who was killed followed the false order or not.

 

[Piedra]

As Denzel Mentioned, we cannot accept any sort of appeal not made by her. If she believes her punishment to be unjust she can make the appeal.

Understood. I apologize for that mistake.

I think its 100% the blues responsibility to watch out on who is giving the orders.

I disagree, this entire situation happened due to lots of overtalking going on over an unfunny joke, which confused a lot of people while trying to listen for my orders, just try to hear one specific voice between dozens and you'll see its a pretty difficult thing, that's why I wouldn't put the blame at all on the blues who were trying to help me.

Its also becoming a problem because reds are overtalking warden and it confuses new players.

I personally think that it should only be taken as a serious, muteable offense when it starts overtalking the warden, as in any other situation it's easy to know who's who, but still in any scenario it should not be allowed as it easily tricks new players into nuking everyone.

Hope you don't give me the christopher treatment boss.

 

[FCV]

Personally i think that false orders shouldnt make you rebel but if someone falls for it then shouldnt be killed but thats just me.

 

[SirKrookodile]

I'm gonna be completely frank here. If you, as the warden are being overtalked constantly, then you should always tell all reds/blus to go off mic for a duration of time. Even with false orders, if I'm ever having any particular issue with false orders as warden I will just say "No giving false orders from now on.". This is Kenya's fault for her not properly paying attention to VC but as warden you always have the means to prevent issues like these. False orders doesn't have to be KOS by default, just restrict them when it becomes relevant.

 

[Flynt]

Old retired jb player here, I feel like nothing should be changed or added here, on blu you're supposed to be alert to things happening around you and if you happen to get tricked by a fake order by a red then that's on you.

A better fix would be for the warden to say that all red should be off mic untill the celldoors are opened, if that's allowed that is, if not that would always be something good to be added.

Also I doubt that the Jb team would deny an appeal if they know it was accidental, unless these accidental freekils tend to happen a lot.

But this is just the opinion of an old eu Jb player that doesn't want to play on us jb cause ping bad.

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

A better fix would be for the warden to say that all red should be off mic untill the celldoors are opened, if that's allowed that is, if not that would always be something good to be added.

REDs are automatically muted for one minute after the round starts by a plugin we have.

Also I doubt that the Jb team would deny an appeal if they know it was accidental, unless these accidental freekils tend to happen a lot.

Accidental MFKs (which is what happened here) carry a 6 hour teamban for the first offense and a perma for the second, this is Kenya's second. I will say though if she waits a couple months and exhibits signs of good behavior we will likely consider revoking her teamban and giving her another chance.

 

[Piedra]

If you, as the warden are being overtalked constantly, then you should always tell all reds/blus to go off mic for a duration of time.

This is easier said than done, I did order multiple times for everybody to get off mic but with 3 to 4 active micspammers few heard me and those who did did not pay attention.

on blu you're supposed to be alert to things happening around you

As I stated before, being able to hear a single voice out of dozens is damn near superhuman hearing, so you can't blame BLU for what happened.

This is starting to become an issue, since anyone can take a situation where warden can't be heard and cause these things, not only does it not fit the charm of the game, it's also the fact that the people who do this tend to not care about no mic orders.

It isnt even a way to rebel or escape BLU, it is straight up griefing and should be looked down upon, otherwise these things happen and the wrong people end up punished.

 

[Piedra]

I'm all in for making it KOS instantly if you give fake orders, but this is obviously not gonna stop people like Zenon from commiting his shenanigans.

Make it a mutable offense when it is taken to a certain limit (Overtalking, RED(s) dying, Micspamming, etc) that way we can avoid more members getting the shovel unfairly and people like Zenon thinking they're funny.

 

[crubf]

red false orders:
- do not make the game enjoyable for people getting confused in an already chaotic game mode
- are not fun to deal with as a warden if youre not just there to farm kills
- are not fun to deal with in the perspective as an admin getting heckled every time this happens
- create situations like this where guards with good reputations and intentions eat an unnecessary ban that they never would've gotten otherwise

nobody benefits beyond the one guy pulling trick orders. blues can't trick reds, reds shouldn't be able to either.

Make it a mutable offense when it is taken to a certain limit (Overtalking[...])

Excessive overtalking in general is already a muteable offence.

 

[_Black]

I think making anyone doing false orders kos is a good middle ground. If they have the opportunity to do it again over and over in the same round, then it would get a bit lame.
Making it a mutable offense wouldnt Benefit the gamemode but rather hurt it imo.

 

[Kenya Snake~]

I think making anyone doing false orders kos is a good middle ground. If they have the opportunity to do it again over and over in the same round, then it would get a bit lame.
Making it a mutable offense wouldnt Benefit the gamemode but rather hurt it imo.

I do agreed with this, Making it a mutable offense is kind of extreme, But i think giving them the KOS status (obv not with the plugin but thanks to the warden) would make it a lot of an easier time to deal with this sort of situations, Now regarding this situation, Yes there was a LOAD of overtalking both on blue and red team, And since Denzel does not have the rights to global mute people, There was nothing to avoid this

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

I do agreed with this, Making it a mutable offense is kind of extreme, But i think giving them the KOS status (obv not with the plugin but thanks to the warden) would make it a lot of an easier time to deal with this sort of situations, Now regarding this situation, Yes there was a LOAD of overtalking both on blue and red team, And since Denzel does not have the rights to global mute people, There was nothing to avoid this

I actually can global mute everyone except warden (for 1 minute), but I personally did not think it reached the point where I had to. I was still able to hear clearly, and to me personally, Zenon has a very distinguishable voice from the rest.

 

[FCV]

I actually can global mute everyone except warden (for 1 minute), but I personally did not think it reached the point where I had to. I was still able to hear clearly, and to me personally, Zenon has a very distinguishable voice from the rest.

He does have a different voice but with overtalking it can be hard to distinguish. Also admins would not be on all the time to mute for one minute so instead of this why not make a thread about adding a mute command to warden.