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a week will easily pass by. this suggestion is like the only opportunity to experience the old maps panda jb had or other stuff. setting this up just for a week isnt worth the time
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NyanBat
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| Chretin | Nostalgic, used to be our default map, really bad map but would be a welcomed addition for a week. |
| Wildwest | About on the line. It was around for a little bit of time on our rotation. Should come back |
| Hop v8 | Must add tbh. Probably the most nostalgic here. |
| Hop v5 | mayybeeeeeee if we are willing to have two of some maps (hop would def deserve it and theres enough different especially for a 7 day thing) |
| mlcastle old | Nostalgic and a great map. Should be added |
| Spacejail v6 | Hear me out. Theres different minigames. |
| Complex | Nostalgic and would be worthwhile for a week. |
| Aztec | Sigh... You win this time PFD1 |
| OG wip | DO NOT do the wip remake. original wip is significantly better! (even if it sucks) |
| Fuckzzz | If we look past its plagirism, I think a 7 day return would be tolerable. |
| OG Minecraft | If its for nostalgia I would love to see the version of minecraft we ran almost 10 years ago. I have no idea what its file name is though. Closest thing I could find was LT NOSTALJI but that doesnt look quite right. |
| jb Bricks! | Probably not nostalgic for people, but I would like to see an older version of an underappreciated map. It was in rotation for a bit. |
| Aquarium | We had this in rotation for a very short time during COVID. I personally NEVER got to play on it lol. |
| Old district | Nostalgic. Used to be heavily in rotation for years. Probably a must add |
| legojail | for the funny? idk |
| maxsec | This map was in rotation for a little while. I could see some nostalgia in it |
| mann or mouse | No! |
| OPST | Was in rotation for eons. Should probably come back, but I do worry since this map is kinda garbage. |
| old quake | Was in rotation for eons. Nostalgic for some im sure. Must add. |
| VScript quake | I said that this map would do wonders in a special event setting. Would like to see it added in this context even if I am fairly certain zero people on this planet hold nostalgia for this map. |
| spy vs spy | I mean I guess its nostalgic. |
| simple | Actually has some potential here. The game collection is solid. Custom LRs would be horrible though. |
| Soviet | Was in rotation for a little bit. The games are passable enough for a week event. |
| Old versions of maps that were never played on | I have alpha versions of some maps like Cargo. Wondering if anyone would be interested in that lol. |
| XMF Beta | Super fire. MUST Add no matter what. |
Compiled a list of a bunch of stuff I would like to see or would like to hear people give thoughts about. Keep in mind even a map is bad this is a showcase of older maps for one week to enjoy stuff once more in a controlled environment. Likely to not be taken too seriously.
Obviously all of my opinions are under the pretense that it's just for the week/month/whatever we would add it for. I just specified it a couple of times instead of all of them. Absolutely none of these maps need to come back unless they REALLY land during the event if it does happen.
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Main issue rn is maps, rotation is super important for us, so stuff like spyvspy is out of the equation. I also dont think stuff like hopv8 and old mlcastle have anything to justify their additions. In general, Im against old versions of maps that arent remakes. Novelty would wear off super fast.
My idea (not the teams) of what maps should be included is:
Chretien
Old District
Aquarium
Complex
OPST
Amazon
Soviet
Maxsec
Bunker
Simple
NONE OF THIS IS FINAL
This is a baseline for any responses to adjust, we are going to discuss this further as a team, but I would like to hear any compelling arguments for any additions and omissions.
Also anything regarding length? We havent finalised it yet but are looking towards around a weekish.
My idea (not the teams) of what maps should be included is:
Chretien
Old District
Aquarium
Complex
OPST
Amazon
Soviet
Maxsec
Bunker
Simple
NONE OF THIS IS FINAL
This is a baseline for any responses to adjust, we are going to discuss this further as a team, but I would like to hear any compelling arguments for any additions and omissions.
Also anything regarding length? We havent finalised it yet but are looking towards around a weekish.
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Why don’t we just make a secondary poll in regards to what maps to be added? This is a suggestion for a community event, makes more sense to let the community pick and choose which maps they want to see?
Make a poll for all the maps we spoke so far, an option for each, and just state if a map gets x amount of votes, we will add it to the event.
Make a poll for all the maps we spoke so far, an option for each, and just state if a map gets x amount of votes, we will add it to the event.
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I don't think we need one (amending mine and mehgends lists through replies is way better) and theres a lot of maps that would be nominated so voting would be inefficient af
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How about b3, b4, or b5? Or even v8 despite its small differences? People love hop and to me this is event far less about how different the maps are and is way more about a general feeling of how cool it would be to play on a map they love again. And if the novelty wears off, then who really cares? The maps aren't going to be forced onto anyone, and all of the maps have enough going on to make a full rotation on the map tolerable at the very least.
Amazon crashes the game, don't think about it.
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The problem with old hop isnt just that the novelty wears off, objectively speaking they are just inferior versions with less stuff to do, and they also fall into the issue of overplayed maps.
The playerbase has repeatedly spoken against the idea of two versions of the same map in rotation, as well as overplayed maps being a strong issue. Two versions of hop that can be nominated (without cooldown!) is ridiculous and exacerbates this issue.
People are gonna be forced to play on maps they dont want to play, its an inherent flaw of the voting mentality on this server.
I also fail to see the nostalgia for versions like v8, like youre nostalgic over a deathrun? Really? Wow look at how primitive this map is, there used to be a prophunt now theres a 9 square wow!!! This isnt a difference thing, its a coolness thing, I dont understand how playing v8 (or the other versions) would be cool. But Id love to be convinced otherwise.
This isnt admin abuse for one round, its going to be an event running through multiple days and the maps added need to reflect that.
The playerbase has repeatedly spoken against the idea of two versions of the same map in rotation, as well as overplayed maps being a strong issue. Two versions of hop that can be nominated (without cooldown!) is ridiculous and exacerbates this issue.
People are gonna be forced to play on maps they dont want to play, its an inherent flaw of the voting mentality on this server.
I also fail to see the nostalgia for versions like v8, like youre nostalgic over a deathrun? Really? Wow look at how primitive this map is, there used to be a prophunt now theres a 9 square wow!!! This isnt a difference thing, its a coolness thing, I dont understand how playing v8 (or the other versions) would be cool. But Id love to be convinced otherwise.
This isnt admin abuse for one round, its going to be an event running through multiple days and the maps added need to reflect that.
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Ok? that was for those maps to be in rotation PERMANENTLY. Having two versions of the same map in PERMANENT rotation is silly unless its super different like district, and even then 22 people voted to have hop v8 in the map pool on that suggestion, and I am sure that at least a handful of the 35 people would be down to play on v8 a couple of times again before saying goodbye for good (?).
This event is legit going to be like 10 days at most. I'm sure most of the community will be able to compose themselves, at least once its over.
That problem already exists with literally any map for at least a handful of people? If they don't like a map enough to not want to play the game then they don't have to. They can nominate and rtv at their free will. People say the same thing about maps that are in the real rotation all the time.
If they don't want to play hop v8 what says they'll want to play Soviet or OPST or Chretien too.
The nostalgia in v8, for me at least, is its lack of stuff that changes the game play from its TF2 characters just jumping around in a prison. No prop hunt, no sumo that deletes part of cell area, no super sonic sweeper secret, no jump pads, no Boston basher scouts mindlessly running to become small, nothing. I normally prefer this style of game play in general, but admit that v12 is a better map because of sight lines and QOL changes to games like Strafe Race.
But I appreciate how calm and grounded the old maps are. It's all really nice.
That's the entire point of this event! Maps like Maxsec and Soviet are arguably even LESS unique and creative (and when they are, its for the worst) than even hop b3 is if it were to be released TODAY.
Literally the WRONG game. (sorry to nitpick)
I hate to be the type of person to not believe somebody has the best intentions and doesn't actually want their stance changed, but the moment this suggestion came out you didn't want to do it, even saying that 7 days would be too long for this or that the event just isn't for you to begin with. Totally fine. You weren't alone in that thinking. But you continually shoot down ideas that I believe the community would like under the guise of what YOU think the event should be.
How am I, or anyone else, expected to really want to push against your list of ideas when you don't even want to do the event in the first place? Are you even going to play the event? It doesn't sound like it.
Its not like this is a map removal thread, this is a flexible suggestion for a temporary thing. It should be driven by community calls and not the admin team exclusively. (When it comes to maps, we have to decide time based on what we'd be allowed to do and whatnot. But that's been discussed more calmly in private).
I, and I am sure many others, wholeheartedly believe that it would be best to let the players decide what they want instead of what looks like it will be you handpicking a handful of maps based on how you personally feel. Maybe they end up with the exact same list of maps, maybe your list won't even be considered. Won't change how I feel about what you're doing in this thread.
And to expand upon what is directly above, I want to preface the next part with my, and a few others, train of thought on this thread:
You handle suggestions a bunch and often times say that you want to be the only one to do so in some cases -> you mention wanting this to be a decision from the admin team and not the community -> you post a list of maps -> you announce that it's time for the final thoughts before the thread is closed. -> You intend on pushing for those 10 maps to be the 10 selected for the event.
It may not be 100% true, and maybe you have the best intentions in mind. I sure hope so, and you and I both know that is probably the case.
I know you don't want to sabotage stuff directly, but to understand where I come from here I request that you take that pipeline into consideration while reading the following.
Now, you say it's not a final list and it is just how you feel, yet you posted the list and less than a minute later; told a chunk of the community to get their final thoughts in before the thread closes, and all this coming from someone who is often seen as, and sees themself as the primary handler of suggestions, what is the community supposed to think? That list is just your input? No! Im sure several people think thats what the map pool is going to be regardless of what they say.
If nobody said/says anything, then what maps get added? Those 10? For all the community knows, yeah it is. The stuff you've said both privately and publicly really has me feeling like it would be what you'd end up pushing for. And I know I don't stand alone here.
For example I listed OG wip because I do have a fair bit of nostalgia for it. I recognize its faults, but its a nostalgia event for a short time. We can handle it. Where's that in your list? Wheres Aztec? Wildwest? Do you not like these maps? I believe not based on what you've said and voted in the past.
Yes, you have voted negatively towards maps you listed in the past too, such as Chertein, but come on. This just seems a little too close to the scales being pushed down on.
I mean in this EXACT thread on the SAME PAGE that my list was on, which you 100% read since you got jb_simple from my list, has me and a few others listing maps they want to see. @ait suggested minecart, @PFD1 and @SirKrookodile suggested Aztec, @NyanBat suggested Wildwest, @zevs suggested old quake, @ItsNotCalassic suggested vscript quake and wip, and @Expired has now mentioned Instacity.
I personally took well over 2 hours out of my day re-discovering JBs past. I considered my own opinions sure, but I also considered maps others might enjoy or request. I sure wasn't going to even mention VScript quake until Calassic mentioned it.
As a full admin myself, I believe that in a suggestion like this, if I was to post a list of maps and instantly announce its the last chance to speak, I would make sure to, at the very least, include maps that people have expressed interest in seeing played. This is a community event, not our event. And if we are to post an example list to gauge interest, it should reflect the communities desires openly expressed. At least a little bit.
And even if it is a horrible idea to add all of those maps, then say why. I can't agree with your take on hop v8, but I can at least understand it. I have no idea why you wouldn't list ANY of the listed maps in this thread by regular players.
To add, I got four positive reactions on my chart, your list has none. Which to me says that that list isn't a great idea. Four reactions isn't going to make or break an event, but it does show that people who are interested want to see deep cuts and not maps that almost exclusively were never in rotation, or were in rotation for comically short stints during COVID.
Personally, my opinion on your list is this:
Its barren, dry of many maps people consider NOSTALGIC (either wip version, wildwest, spyvsspy, old hop, old mlcastle, etc.) Its not about map quality or what will be in rotation as much as it is giving these old maps one (final?) chance to shine in a controlled environment for a very short time. Way less people will care about two hops in rotation for 10 days than you think. Or even two brickers for what its worth. Or even a hundred brickers honestly.
Like, really... simple over a bunch of maps we had in rotation. Original wip was in rotation for 4 years, the remake was in rotation for 2 or 3. Far more people nostalgic for that than simple or bunker. Who the hell actually want bunker? Wouldn't the novelty of bunker wear of far sooner than hop v8. At least hop v8 plays well and people know they like it. Don't get me wrong, I actually want to see Simple. I see it as a crazy wildcard and would love to see it given a shot on Panda for once.
I've spoken to several other players both privately and publicly on discords or whatever, and the vibe that I got was that they agree with me on all of these things that I have said in this reply.
Whether or not the issues I presented was the intention, it comes off like some sort of crazy sabotage of an idea you don't even like.
Which you and I both know you don't want to, or ever will do. So what is with this? Why are you so keen on the admin team deciding instead of the community? You've shown zero desire to do the event, and now it is seriously looking like you are trying to keep the control out of the community so you don't have to play on maps you don't like. Because as shown above, you have expressed a dislike for pretty much all of the suggested maps that were not included on the listed maps.
(Its also that those 10 maps are barely nostalgic for a lot of players. Bunker made your list but not wip?? What??? wip was literally in rotation for a combined time of like 7 years. Was bunker ever in rotation lol)
My problem here really wouldn't be such a big deal if it wasn't a really bad combination of things. I could tolerate a sub-par map pool or not having the community enganging in the decision,
but stuff like the the pipeline I listed above combined with the lack of any interest in supporting this idea, the seemingly lack of interest in playing the event and making it for the community to enjoy, and the desire to handle all of the decisions in private amongst the admins just all feels super bitter if I am being honest.
And lastly, just to address some of the things you have against some maps.
If the players don't like the maps, then so be it! It's only two weeks max (most likely less) and they'll still be able to play on any of the 30+ maps in regular rotation. I don't see any issues in adding as many maps as possible, unless there is a hardware issue with it. (I'm sure there isn't, DR runs like 4 billion maps compared to us) Because at the end of the day, all it takes is one person to go "rtv lets get off this map" at the right time to end the map.
It takes one nomination to influence votes.
And it takes no effort to not play on a map you don't want to.
Just chill around for an hour and 20 minutes at most, and come back and play a new map. People have been doing this for a decade with maps they don't enjoy. I think they can handle 2 weeks (at most) of a bunch of maps being added for a short time.
And that is if they dislike EVERY SINGLE MAP added, which I frankly find hard to believe. Especially since people tend to be more willing to play on maps that are new to rotation they don't really vibe with (The entire server during area17s honeymoon phase for example)
It's ok if you don't see nostalgic value in X map or Y version, but we should allow the community to decide that for themselves. Not us 11 admins and 1 community manager, some of whom surely won't even participate for any given reason. Totally cool btw, no one is required to attend.
Obviously we have the FINAL say in what happens, but we shouldn't have basically ALL of the say.
I just feel like we aren't handling this suggestion with its due diligence.
I honestly do believe that you intend for that list to just be your opinion and that you believe those are the best maps for this event, but with the pipeline I listed above, it gen feels like its what you want the final list to be regardless of what people have previously said. Entirely possible that it it isn't, but I just cant shake that feeling off.
I don't want a good idea to die in a poorly executed spot because you want to tip the scales the way YOU see fit. Because that's how this feels to me and a couple others I've spoken to.
Maybe its just a bad look, but even if it isn't what you intend, its still how it feels.
Please don't ignore the multiple maps suggested, post a template of what you want to see added for us to discuss, and announce there's two days left to converse on the thread.
It makes it feel like that is going to be the final rotation of maps to ME, someone that would be one of the few people discussing the map pool as a team.
To be super clear, this is NOT a hate post or a witch hunt or anything. I am just really confused on how/why this is going down this way and am expressing how it is being seen by me and a couple other players. I truly believe that you do actually want a positive thing, but I am just sayin.
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@Mehgend
Wanna say for starters, thank you for that post.
For the longest time i’ve felt as if suggestions were only pushed for how Banana wants and not what the team wants. Though could be a lack of communication/transparency or the such. But hey, thats how it comes off and thats how the majority of us are going to perceive it! This suggestion made me realize that even more when I kept seeing the updates on this suggestion. I also do believe it isn’t malicious or any of the sort.
Let the community drive this event, not the admin team. I suggested a map that wasn’t even considered. Why was bunker on that list and not wip? Literally nobody has nostalgia for bunker. It was never a map that was ever playable? The original WiP was in rotation for how many years? That’s a playable map!
Wanna say for starters, thank you for that post.
For the longest time i’ve felt as if suggestions were only pushed for how Banana wants and not what the team wants. Though could be a lack of communication/transparency or the such. But hey, thats how it comes off and thats how the majority of us are going to perceive it! This suggestion made me realize that even more when I kept seeing the updates on this suggestion. I also do believe it isn’t malicious or any of the sort.
Let the community drive this event, not the admin team. I suggested a map that wasn’t even considered. Why was bunker on that list and not wip? Literally nobody has nostalgia for bunker. It was never a map that was ever playable? The original WiP was in rotation for how many years? That’s a playable map!
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> Nostalgia Event
> Suggests a map we have never had on rotation
Can we have sincinatti and wetworks while we're at it?
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past community experiences took me over like a symbiote
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