Answered [JB] Is Making False Orders KOS (for the entire round) a Valid Order? (1 Viewer)

[PistolPoppinSince02]

This question is being asked due to common dialogue during Jb, in which both myself and another regular believed differing stances on the given question.

Firstly let us reference this suggestion post;

Declined - [JB] False Orders 2

Hi Everybody, I am proposing a rule change that would allow the warden to make false orders KOS. Recently the amount of people who have been giving false orders has increased and the amount of new players who fall for them and become salty has as well. I've also noticed that the regular people...

www.panda-community.com

The rule referenced is;
"The Warden has the rights to request players to stay off the microphone to help himself giving clear orders, you can kill Red players talking through your orders if you give a warning first."
And the verdict concluded was;
"reds giving false orders is a part of preventing the warden from giving clear orders, therefor the warden is allowed to restrict giving false orders."

However the full context of the rule referenced is;
"The Warden has the rights to request players to stay off the microphone to help himself giving clear orders, you can kill Red players talking through your orders if you give a warning first.
But you cannot restrict players to be muted for the entire round, you can request 30 seconds or the the entire start of the round to speak for yourself as Warden.
You as Warden can't restrict players from using the chat or force players to type in the chat. (Jeopardy/Kitchen Minigame is the only exception)"

"You can kill Red players talking TRHOUGH your orders if you give a warning first" is the key part of the rule omitted.
If a Red player is giving False Orders while you are trying to give orders or have requested them off mic AFTER giving a warning, THEN it is KOS.

As mentioned here;
"But you cannot restrict players to be muted for the entire round, you can request 30 seconds or the the entire start of the round to speak for yourself as Warden."
Making False Orders KOS for the entire round would fall under this clause, hence why I currently interpret restricting False Orders for an entire round is not a valid order.

At the end of the day I'm not dying on this hill, it's just a misunderstanding I would like resolved.

Also I would like to mention another quote from the suggestion post;
"...and it not clearly being stated in the ruleset its a simple mistake. in the future feel free to restrict false orders by reds"
This right here is the origin of this question being asked, as there will be multiple interpretations derived from a non-existent rule. So I do apologize if my given interpretation is incorrect.

 

[Cowboy]

Making False Orders KOS for the entire round would fall under this clause

Restricting people from making false orders for the duration of the round vs muting reds for an entire round is an insanely large stretch of logic here.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Restricting people from making false orders for the duration of the round vs muting reds for an entire round is an insanely large stretch of logic here.

It is preventing them from saying something in chat the entire round.
You are essentially 'muting' them from using false orders.

Make of that what you will, but that is the reasoning for the causality.

 

[Cowboy]

You are essentially 'muting' them from using false orders.

If we wanna get obnoxiously technicial we can look at the definition of muting

Unless you are somehow incapable of saying nothing but false orders as red youre not being muted. You're simply being restricted from giving false orders. You are more than capable of chatting and using your mic for literally anything else other than saying phrases that have the intention of tricking other reds and trying to get them killed when you are given this order.

Theres been dozens upon dozens of instances where individuals have tried to stretch the rules to the point where they are able to basicially trick reds and getting them killed rather than minigames and rebelling from both Blue and Red team players. It's always been discouraged on Panda because the communities perspective is that trick orders should not be killing reds, it should be minigames and rebelling. From reading your post multiple times i'm still not seeing anywhere in the rules that prevents Blues from giving this order. If the communities perspective that they want a clear definition i'm sure we can arrange that, but adding to the already long ruleset i'm just simply not a fan.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

The burden of proof falls on the ability to restrict this. No where in the rules does it allow Blus to restrict specific phrases for Reds.

As you've stated as well, no where in the rules is this concretely prohibited either.
"But you cannot restrict players to be muted for the entire round, you can request 30 seconds or the the entire start of the round to speak for yourself as Warden.
You as Warden can't restrict players from using the chat or force players to type in the chat. (Jeopardy/Kitchen Minigame is the only exception)"

Given you cannot restrict nor enforce Typing Chat, it would imply Voice Chat follows a similar guideline.

So yes, it would be nice to concretely define this in the rules.

Also yes the definition of Mute provided by the Oxford Dictionary; "deafen, muffle, or soften the sound of" does apply. You are muting reds ability to give false orders.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Furthermore I would like to add I am far from the only person with this given interpretation.
Today alone I've seen people with both views.

I get adding rules upon rules sucks, but this is one sentence to add.

 

[_Black]

>No more false orders from now on.
>Kill everyone giving false orders.

 

[Mark!]

So is it legal to restrict people from saying something over the whole round or not? Since I started playing I have been under the assumption that you can only restrict voice chat in general and for a limited amount of time

 

[Cowboy]

So is it legal to restrict people from saying something over the whole round or not? Since I started playing I have been under the assumption that you can only restrict voice chat in general and for a limited amount of time

It is legal in this context, yes.