Declined [JB] Cellwars/Meatgrinder change (1 Viewer)

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_Black

_Black

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I think the cellwars/meatgrinder ratio should be changed to 1:6.

Because I have experienced quite alot of rounds where the blus would always play cellwars whenever they could even with just 10 reds on.

This is incredibly annoying since we all know blus have crits and should be able to handle a 3v10.

This would limit cellwars only to be played when its actually necessary instead of "oh we have 3 people lets do cellwars.

I would apply this change to meatgrinder aswell.

Any feedback is welcome.
 
Depends on the map, most maps distribute reds around to the point that cell wars would at most kill 1-2 reds, Not really a good change imo.

the 3 blues to do cell wars, is pretty needed in a full server, atleast in extreme cases
 
Zee said:
Depends on the map, most maps distribute reds around to the point that cell wars would at most kill 1-2 reds, Not really a good change imo.

the 3 blues to do cell wars, is pretty needed in a full server, atleast in extreme cases
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Well this would also allow a 4v24 cellwars to be done, this change mainly is meant to prevent Multiple cellwars rounds with 3v10s
 
_Black said:
Well this would also allow a 4v24 cellwars to be done, this change mainly is meant to prevent Multiple cellwars rounds with 3v10s
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I understand that but that would only exasperate stupid chain cellwars imo and could be exploited, a simple rule number instead of an equation relays info better.
 
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This math isn’t even that difficult but I ain’t doing math just to say you can or can’t do something that just isn’t fun to begin with
 
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I appreciate every answer from all the lovely JB people, the math/educational Problem is a major Problem unfortunately.

Thus a New minigame idea has been created. Math finder.
It is a game full of 33% doors with math riddles ontop and different answers ontop of the door frames.
(If anyone wants to add this to a map)
 
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I think this is a good idea but unfortunately many JB players can't do math like this (even though ratios and fractions is something you do in late elementary school/early middle school at the earliest).
 
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Cell wars isn't perfect in it's current form, but I don't think changing to a ratio is any better. Yes, this would prevent stinky poopoo 3v10 cell wars, but also all the way up to 3v17 cell wars, which isn't an unreasonable ratio. Try changing the ratio, and you will still notice unbalance at either the lower or higher end of it.

First off, I don't think fairness scales linearly when talking about number of people on each team. 1 guard vs 6 reds is quite more manageable than 3 vs 18, despite being the same ratio. Doubling the amount of reds certainly doesn't exactly double the likelihood they win (it's more than double), even if the amount of guards is doubled as well. Once the group of reds is big enough, you not only need more blu firepower to match the larger crowd, you need enough blus to fulfill the roles that a warden can't do all by themselves simply because they are 1 person in 1 location, such as having at least one guard behind the group of reds at all times, at least one guard ready to be disposed at an alternative getaway spot, and enough guards that you have some leftover for other minor roles like killing a rebeller in the crowd without freehitting, or shooting a door button that a red keeps +using. I didn't mention having a guard glued to the warden for protection, since that's more of a luxury.

Secondly (and more of a nitpick), I see the enforcement of this change leading to arguments, because even though this is simple math, it's harder to keep track of how many reds AND blus were alive at the START of the round and note the ratio than just keeping track of the blus, which already causes confusion when people tell the warden that the round started with 4 blus and he can't do meatgrinder.

Problem with changing to a ratio is that it holds the number of reds to too high of significance. 4 blus instead of 3 could easily be the difference for not needing cell wars to control the reds, but it feels a little silly to say that in 3v17, the blus can handle it, and 3v18 cell wars is justified. In the end, the blu count is way more significant since there's a static number of roles that guards need to fulfill in a round where rebellers exist, and it's rarely ever about needing more guns to ''match'' the number of reds you will need to shoot.


"what is this scooty fellow yapping about"
 
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The main problem I see is that no matter how the rules surrounding it are altered, each set of potential rules that enforce it comes with its own flaws:
- In it's current form (must have 3 or less BLUs at the start of a round for Cell wars to be legal), the warden can do cell wars if it's something like 3:5 or 3:6, even though those ratios are usually manageable. On the other hand, a 4:28 ratio means cell wars isn't allowed despite it being a reasonable ratio to do it (IMO).
- This suggestion would largely eliminate the first problem of doing cell wars with manageable ratios because "it's 3 BLUS!", but not really the second problem (as Scootyman pointed out, you wouldn't be allowed to do 3:17, which is a reasonable ratio to do cell wars).
- Also, a lot of JB players can't seem to do math, but I guess we're not all math geniuses...maybe some people didn't pay attention in school :| (but seriously though, you learn about fractions and ratios in elementary school).

A more plausible idea would maybe be to allow cell wars to be done with 4 BLUs if the number of REDs is say, 25 or higher (as something like 4:27 is IMO not an unreasonable ratio to do cell wars).
 
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This suggestion favors reds in every other context than 4vs24+ compared to the current rules.
It's just not worth it.
Im sorry but the truth is most of the blues can't handle a successful round and we shouldn't make it any harder for them rn.

Btw. I've tried to thought about the better ratio than yours proposed and best what i can think of is x² + 5 where x is number of blues.
(If we're gonna torture jailbreakers with math we should go all in lol)
 
Good idea but… I think I have a more straightforward solution.

Here is some context; For those of you that do not know, our US (formerly known as NY) server used to have a cap of 24 players. The rule for needing 3 blues or less to do cellwars was around back then on panda (jailbreak had always had 24 players since that was the casual lobby player cap, and the default.) The previous blu to red ratio was a 1:7 ratio on a full server. but now since we have more player slots on a full server the needed ratio is slightly above a 1:9.ratio.

My first proposed action would be to restrict meatgrinder to Last Request. I want to do this because, without the low number of guards a warden can already do arena (either in arena or a space of relatively equal size that isn’t cell area.) Along with this meatgrinder is already a fairly often Last Request.

My second action proposed would be to make it so that cellwars must be done before opening 9:00 on the timer. Along with this my idea is that if there are more than 24 players alive at the announcement of cellwars the number of blues needed will be four or less over 3 or less. This is to compensate for the extra 8 player slots. The reason I say that having cellwars occur before 9 is helpful is so that the majority of players will still be alive. I take it that we can do this if a warden can do basic addition before their orders. This is much more likely to be understood, than asking them to divide then round.
 
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