Completed [FF2] Removal of Sniper Wall Climb (1 Viewer)

[Manvid]

Leading on with the spy's backstab nerf which will now be a static 1k dmg, I'd like to shift a focus on the sniper.

He aims and shoots, dealing up to 375/450 dmg per shot/headshot from any range. Right in front of somebody or in the next continent - it really doesn't matter for him, therefore it's very much risk free. Why? Cuss when the "right in front of somebody" does happen, he can simply swap to his melee weapon, hit the nearby wall, and elevate himself, even if there's a health cost. What can the boss do? Wait for him to come down or use his movement ability, which has a longer cooldown than the climb.

Meanwhile what can the spy do to escape? He can use the dead ringer's speed boost, which is just a Disciplinary action effect on getting hit by the boss, which sometimes can't work, cuss some bosses can just kill through the ringer.
Oh and there's the big earner too with the same effect.

So why exactly should the sniper have this movement ability that he can use at least 6 times while also being able to deal more consistent damage from a safer distance than the spy, who risks his life with each stab? It just doesn't make much sense, to me at least.

Therefore I wanna know what the other FF2 members think of this removal. Should it happen?
(I am not currently suggesting adding this to VSH, since I play it highly infrequently. If people from VSH are bothered by the sniper having this ability, they should make a VSH poll)

 

[Manvid]

Oh yes, one thing I forgot to mention - Both classes will be able to make use of the Engineer jump pads regardless of their movement abilities, so just remember that teamwork part.

And adding onto that, the pads can lead the sniper into using the wall climbs to spring themselves really far away.

 

[Otis]

I disagree. A tiny bit of movement is necessary for the sniper to survive any type of situation.
Taking this ability away in its entirety is going to make sniper simply less useful to pick unless it's a big map.
The Spy despite being nerfed still has the ability to escape situations and still dish out quite a bit of damage even with the Nerf of a static 1k. (e.g. Medics, trickstabs, hitreg, pads)

The simplest solution (imo) would be to increase the amount of damage he takes from wall-climbing. This would heavily limit what kind of trickery a Sniper can do, and also stop Snipers from mindlessly going up a wall for the next 30 seconds when being targeted.

 

[Jiji]

Another solution could be making the delay between climbs longer (right now it's 1.56 seconds), maybe 3 seconds or longer.

 

[Maddox]

I agree with Kruph,i'd rather have some sort of delay added for the wall jumps then completely removing it.

 

[Manvid]

Another solution could be making the delay between climbs longer (right now it's 1.56 seconds), maybe 3 seconds or longer.

Oooooh, I like that, making it so the sniper can't get infinite height with it, while still leaving with a movement option, good idea!

 

[Aerial]

Another solution could be making the delay between climbs longer (right now it's 1.56 seconds), maybe 3 seconds or longer.

I Agree on this, Sure now with the engie pads he is similar to the boss's mobility but removing his climb ability is a total defeat for sniper.

 

[Solar]

since ppl tend to combo this with cozy camper wouldnt it also be easiee to disable that? i mean you can rly climb with low hp

 

[R4_]

3 second climb delay would mean sniper can't climb any wall at all. It'd just be a slightly higher jump. It'd kill any good huntsman sniping.

I don't really think Sniper deserves this nerf, the damage & knockback was already nerfed recently and it's definitely toned down the power of sniper.
At what point will people accept that most of the classes are "balanced", it seems like a race to the bottom here. Nerfing things for the sake of it.

Next the second sniper nerf will be used to justify another nerf to other classes.

The comparisons to Spy make no sense either, Sniper is meant to be a support distance class. Certain map types favour certain classes.
Also in what world are most or frankly any snipers hitting regular headshots for the 450 damage?

 

[Manvid]

3 second climb delay would mean sniper can't climb any wall at all. It'd just be a slightly higher jump. It'd kill any good huntsman sniping.

I don't really think Sniper deserves this nerf, the damage & knockback was already nerfed recently and it's definitely toned down the power of sniper.
At what point will people accept that most of the classes are "balanced", it seems like a race to the bottom here. Nerfing things for the sake of it.

Next the second sniper nerf will be used to justify another nerf to other classes.

The comparisons to Spy make no sense either, Sniper is meant to be a support distance class. Certain map types favour certain classes.
Also in what world are most or frankly any snipers hitting regular headshots for the 450 damage?

But did it tone it down enough? You can still stop a leap with one uncharged sniper bullet, whose knockback is supposedly already nerfed.

However for other stuff I can't exactly argue against that, however it would make sense to make the sniper have a higher risk when he's getting pressured, much like the spy gets risk with every backstab.

And yes, most people don't go for headshots, but it's still worth mentioning to tell people "Hey, he can still technically do the full damage in a way". But then again, 25-75 dmg loss per bullet isn't exactly a lot, especially when you can opt for huntsman's 581 dmg shot. But we're here for the climb removal/nerf discussion at this point.

 

[Manvid]

since ppl tend to combo this with cozy camper wouldnt it also be easiee to disable that? i mean you can rly climb with low hp

As a guy that has a cozy camper incorporating loadout, I can't say that it pops up that much. Sure it recharges his "uses" passively but I'm not exactly say for certain that removing that is good for him. Then again, I am not that skilled and just might have a hidden bias for the thing, who knows.

 

[R4_]

But did it tone it down enough? You can still stop a leap with one uncharged sniper bullet, whose knockback is supposedly already nerfed.

You cannot stop a leap with an uncharged sniper bullet. if you hit a headshot, depending on the bosses knockback resistance, you may be able to. Otherwise you'll just knock them back a small bit, they'll still continue leaping unless it's directly head-on with a charged shot. Only when the sniper was buffed was this possible with uncharged shots.

However for other stuff I can't exactly argue against that, however it would make sense to make the sniper have a higher risk when he's getting pressured, much like the spy gets risk with every backstab.

And yes, most people don't go for headshots, but it's still worth mentioning to tell people "Hey, he can still technically do the full damage in a way". But then again, 25-75 dmg loss per bullet isn't exactly a lot, especially when you can opt for huntsman's 581 dmg shot. But we're here for the climb removal/nerf discussion at this point.

Yes and a huntsman requires you to be relatively close to the enemy, thus the need for some method of escape similar to spy.
I think you are vastly overestimating the risk of spy with the DR & all the medic spam but it isn't really a valid comparison anyway.

 

[Manvid]

You cannot stop a leap with an uncharged sniper bullet. if you hit a headshot, depending on the bosses knockback resistance, you may be able to. Otherwise you'll just knock them back a small bit, they'll still continue leaping unless it's directly head-on with a charged shot. Only when the sniper was buffed was this possible with uncharged shots.



Yes and a huntsman requires you to be relatively close to the enemy, thus the need for some method of escape similar to spy.
I think you are vastly overestimating the risk of spy with the DR & all the medic spam but it isn't really a valid comparison anyway.

Trust me, you can definitely stop the leap with the uncharged shot, I've seen it happen from me to them and on me from others. I am very much confident in that aspect.

And that's the thing - Relatively close, so there's still some distance available. Spy doesn't get that luxury when using the knife.
And as for the medics, well that's just them seeing spy as the best option, especially when the spy being ubered knows how to matador a man constantly when he knows he is completely safe now. But that's more so teamwork being utilized, not the spy's own capability. Dead ringer can save him sure, but if he fumbles the proc of it when raged, that's good night sweet french prince.

Moreover, the current votes are leaning towards a change rather than removal, and personally I'm starting to see value in a little movement. But eh, we'll see how it goes.

 

[Jiji]

I'm gonna give this another try. Remade the poll with three options now:

• Increase the delay between climbs
• Increase self-damage on wallclimb
• Don't do anything (Keep wallclimbing it as it is)

FYI this suggestion is for FF2 ONLY, it won't affect VSH. Poll will last 5 days.

 

[Oskar Dietz]

I dont know if I can suggest anything now. But I think that give sniper a heal reduction from healtpacks when he has melee weapon active would be also a nice addition.

 

[Manvid]

I dont know if I can suggest anything now. But I think that give sniper a heal reduction from healtpacks when he has melee weapon active would be also a nice addition.

A quick swap to gun will negate that, so if we are to add that, it would need to be a constant drawback.

 

[Jiji]

There's enough votes already so I'm just gonna mark this as pending. Delay between climbs will be increased in one of the next FF2 updates.

 

[Kevin]

done has been implemented.