Declined Attempt two - A change to deathruns skipping rules. (1 Viewer)

[Magglet]

Are u suggesting that your brain strains at the idea of enforcing 2 very simple rules?

Not saying its invalid but I think you are just against allowing skipping not that admins struggle enforcing rules.
Which is fair enough.

 

[An0n]

Are u suggesting that your brain strains at the idea of enforcing 2 very simple rules?

Not saying its invalid but I think you are just against allowing skipping not that admins struggle enforcing rules.
Which is fair enough.

The strain is not on me, but on getting all DR players to adjust to the rule changes, which is something I don't think you are grasping to understand yourself.

I am against allowing skipping and against making fake freeruns a rulebreak, yes. And so is the entire DR administration team (and some other admins/former staff from DR).

Something that could be comparable to this would be me voting on rule changes for servers you are an administrator in, after all it would be you the one having to take care of, accustom to, let other players get accustomed to, and enforce these new rules.

 

[Mikey]

And also, why would we allow skipping on freerun on #9 when on #22 it's always allowed to?

 

[An0n]

Solution: Those who want to skip can go play on #22 instead. Would also be a way to re-populate said server.

 

[Flynt]

Isn't the point of skipping traps to avoid dying to it? So if thats the case skipping traps during a freerun seems kind of pointless and serve no point beyond gotta go fast.

 

[CHUCKSTER]

I feel like experimenting with rule changes is a bad idea, would cause even MORE confusion after the experiment ends.

Rule either gets added permanently or it doesn't, no experiments.

the entire rule of skipping traps that CAN be skipped without bhop already caused and still actively causes so much confusion. if i got a dime for every new player who said "you cant skip that" "!call" "stop skipping traps" that i was completely allowed to skip. there is still an issue with how admins portray some rules which i am pretty sure is still an active problem. (e.g. some admins letting the timebomb go even if no ones delaying and it is just a long map, but some admins cancelling it). which constantly causes confusion. there are much MUCH bigger problems that dont only make new players puzzled, but . this change here is not even remotely close to as tedious as those that still currently exist.

i still dont think this rule is that huge or even serves much use since i think all players who bhop have overcome doing speedruns without skipping traps already, but the arguments being brung up are just as applicable to things like when they changed fake freeruns to be allowed. if this got accepted and there was confusion, you know people would overcome it like they always have.

 

[CHUCKSTER]

plus call me crazy, but i think for one of the very very very few remaining active bhop servers in tf2 and easily the most popular one, that constantly prohibiting rules on it to appeal to people who do not bhop seems silly. imagine a game comes out attempting to be a nostalgic old source game and many players flood in, but they thought it was unfair to the new players who wanted to join, so they added skins and brighter textures and made the game look more new. im not saying people who dont like to bhop have no word, but there are already so many restrictions which pushed many players away who like to bhop. this is basically the smallest asking since it is very minor, yet people still want to decline it for the small problem that is possibility of confusion. because come on, look at the poll results. the majority is one side people who enjoy bhop, other side people who barely do, and it was basically the same when i asked for dr_aztecan and dr_mlg_bearun to come back, and the people who enjoy bhop won the poll. HmX did very successfully for allowing to skip all and every trap with bhop regardless if possible without it, why would this server be any different.

 

[Madact]

Might have been better to start off not allowing fake freerun suggestion before this suggestion. Would make this suggestion less 'complex'.

If maps where made to accommodate bhop by stopping players from bypassing traps (cheating death with bhop) then the bhop skipping rule wouldn't need to be here in the first place. But this requires someone who is willing to clear out all deathrun maps of these areas and for Kevin to apply these map changes.

 

[CHUCKSTER]

Might have been better to start off not allowing fake freerun suggestion before this suggestion. Would make this suggestion less 'complex'.

If maps where made to accommodate bhop by stopping players from bypassing traps (cheating death with bhop) then the bhop skipping rule wouldn't need to be here in the first place. But this requires someone who is willing to clear out all deathrun maps of these areas and for Kevin to apply these map changes.

i'd assume it would be possible to add a freerun button on all maps too, unless if that's more time consuming

 

[CHUCKSTER]

Isn't the point of skipping traps to avoid dying to it? So if thats the case skipping traps during a freerun seems kind of pointless and serve no point beyond gotta go fast.

no it isnt. you can lose speed or all momentum because you are forced to not skip a trap sometimes on many maps.

 

[Madact]

i'd assume it would be possible to add a freerun button on all maps too, unless if that's more time consuming

I would think it's possible. Would take a lot of work though and I wouldn't know who would do that.
And Kevin would then have to put all these changes up. Wouldn't know how long that would take.

It's a bit off topic as it's just me pointing out the obvious. It's the ideal solution to both problems but unfortunately we have to make do with what we have now and the bhop rule patches that. Thought I'd mention it just in case someone is crazy enough to pull it off!

 

[♥Chaz♥]

Yeah lets not stray off topic here, i like the idea but i feel like things are getting a bit out of hand. Lets just focus on the original topic and how it can be balanced out for admins and players.

 

[An0n]

Yeah lets not stray off topic here, i like the idea but i feel like things are getting a bit out of hand. Lets just focus on the original topic and how it can be balanced out for admins and players.

I suggest what Mikey and me had said before about the #22 DR server.

Leaving #9 how it is right now and promoting to those who want to skip that they move over to #22, where it is allowed to skip. I'd say it is completely balanced, admins and other regulars get to not have a fucking aneurysm from all the exceptions to take into account; you and those who want to skip and bhop can do so freely; and we all also get to re-populate the other server.

 

[Mertes]

I suggest what Mikey and me had said before about the #22 DR server.

Leaving #9 how it is right now and promoting to those who want to skip that they move over to #22, where it is allowed to skip. I'd say it is completely balanced, admins and other regulars get to not have a fucking aneurysm from all the exceptions to take into account; you and those who want to skip and bhop can do so freely; and we all also get to re-populate the other server.

#22 has been in desperate need of players so giving it a reason to get players would obviously be beneficial. However, it feels very contradictory to allow players to do whatever they want on the 2nd server solely because it isn't as populated, it feels like it goes against the whole idea then and basically just makes the server into an anarchistic hellhole where it's just gonna devolve into rulebreakers' paradise. I'm obviously exaggerating a bit but my point still stands in that it would feel kind of hypocritical to just allow something somewhere else, then why not allow it on the main server?
Perhaps the server could become more of an experimental server if anything, with what Chuck mentioned with experimenting with rules, while a very risky idea, could perhaps be applied to the 2nd Deathrun server. I don't know, kind of just spit-balling here.

Anyway, I am still opposed to the idea of allowing skips through free runs due to the reasons listed prior by An0n and Solar among others. The bhop rule is complicated as it is already and changes have been made back and forth since its constitution all those years ago, so I feel like things would get even more complex if changes like this would be applied.

 

[♥Chaz♥]

#22 has been in desperate need of players so giving it a reason to get players would obviously be beneficial. However, it feels very contradictory to allow players to do whatever they want on the 2nd server solely because it isn't as populated, it feels like it goes against the whole idea then and basically just makes the server into an anarchistic hellhole where it's just gonna devolve into rulebreakers' paradise. I'm obviously exaggerating a bit but my point still stands in that it would feel kind of hypocritical to just allow something somewhere else, then why not allow it on the main server?
Perhaps the server could become more of an experimental server if anything, with what Chuck mentioned with experimenting with rules, while a very risky idea, could perhaps be applied to the 2nd Deathrun server. I don't know, kind of just spit-balling here.

Anyway, I am still opposed to the idea of allowing skips through free runs due to the reasons listed prior by An0n and Solar among others. The bhop rule is complicated as it is already and changes have been made back and forth since its constitution all those years ago, so I feel like things would get even more complex if changes like this would be applied.

I agree with experimenting rules on the second deathrun server, maybe it'd get more populated that way.

 

[Madact]

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#9 & US Deathrun Specific rule (This does not apply for #22 Deathrun)

• Do not use the bunny hop to skip traps.
For a more detailed explanation, click here.

It's all ready implemented. Was done about last year

 

[♥Chaz♥]

Honestly, the way i view everything now, i feel bhop as a whole should be removed from 09 and kept to 22, all of these complicated skipping and rushing rules are only there because of bhop. Skipping and other bhop related stuff could just stay on 22 without any skipping rules, I think it'd be a good way to make 22 repopulated for those players who enjoy bhopping and skipping, or just being fast paced in general and have 09 as a pure deathrun server, only issue is that most people come to 09 solely because of the bhopping, other servers don't really have that, so a loss of players could happen (moving to skial or blackwonder etc)

 

[Flynt]

Honestly, the way i view everything now, i feel bhop as a whole should be removed from 09 and kept to 22, all of these complicated skipping and rushing rules are only there because of bhop. Skipping and other bhop related stuff could just stay on 22 without any skipping rules, I think it'd be a good way to make 22 repopulated for those players who enjoy bhopping and skipping, or just being fast paced in general and have 09 as a pure deathrun server, only issue is that most people come to 09 solely because of the bhopping, other servers don't really have that, so a loss of players could happen (moving to skial or blackwonder etc)

Why remove it though? it's not that hard to not skip traps. Also I doubt we'd lose a lot of players, I feel like as far as I've seen only a minority of players are die hard bhoppers. (a more active DR player may correct me on this)

 

[An0n]

Okay so:

1. Removing bhop from #9 is the least thoughtful thing I have read. If your objective is to keep players engaged and active on the server, removing bhop under the premise that it cannot be used to skip traps is simply wrong. Many players, myself included, are able to use bhop normally to bait the death into using the traps without skipping them. You don't see us having an aneurysm if our bhopping is stopped at a trap so as to be careful not to skip it either, so that's a you problem, something you ought to work on. Overall, deleting bhop from #9 to benefit the other server and allow skipping is a big no-no.

2. As Sloth very correctly mentioned, it's only a very reduced minority of people like you who are tryhard bhoppers so I'd rather focus on the bigger picture here and keep things as they are.

3. Finally, I would like to take note of what @Mertes said before and simply state that whilst the #22 server may allow skipping, that would be the only difference with #9. Of course there would be admins going by this secondary server to take care of it and enforce general rules, which is what I think you fear might turn into chaos. If needed be it, applications could re-open for EU DR to adjust to this very change.

That is all for now. I maintain my point as a solution which could be a balance for both the staff team and this reduced group of players. Of course some other tweaks would have to be made to promote both servers equally and efforts would have to be sunk into differentiating the two servers and in which one the skipping rule applies.

 

[Madact]

The poll vote is too close to consider this as an accepted suggestion. There has to be another solution to this that at least 75% of the deathrun playerbase can agree with.