Declined Attempt two - A change to deathruns skipping rules. (2 Viewers)

[♥Chaz♥]

Hello, I have noticed recently a frequent amount of bans regarding skipping, specifically bans on those who skip during a freerun. Before I continue, I would like to clarify something about my last post, related to @Mikey, I would like to clarify that my last post was not a duplicate, and I found that my post did not relate very well to that of the post provided by Mikey, and would like to note that I am sharing completely different opinions on a very specific topic, and would appreciate if this post was also not marked as a duplicate.

I think that these rules would make the game-mode a lot more fun to those who enjoy bhopping and make things much more fair to those who do it. I also agree with some of the things that were said on the previous post, such as how it "encourages" new or existing players to skip the traps, however I believe that it should not be the players that are at fault, as is expected, panda encourages new players to read the rules and the forums are provided right as you log into a game, and so it should be the new or existing players who put themselves at risk of rulebreaking, not the players. The changes I would like to see are as followed:

"When an active death player enables a map specific button, typically a freerun mode, any and all traps that have alternative routes I.e, jumping around or over the specified route, should be allowed to be taken in 1 jump across the entire trap, also known as a skip during non-freeruns"

A problem with this however would be that some maps do not have these buttons, rather encouraging an active death player to type "freerun" into the chat. I think that it would be very much fair to not allow skipping on a freerun on these types of maps that do not contain these buttons, regardless of if the freerun is fake or not. Something like this would be suitable in my opinion:

"On maps that do not contain such buttons, skipping traps during a "freerun", as prompted by death, should not be allowed and players should get punished accordingly for skipping."

These rule changes are quite simple and could be a very good addition to deathrun. making things a lot more fun, especially since most of the new maps that get added are having these buttons available onto them and are becoming more and more common. I hope you agree with what I have presented here, this is open to discussion, please leave your suggestions and thoughts in the comments (if it has not been marked as a duplicate), and let me know what could be better. Thanks!

 

[♥Chaz♥]

-Bumping-

 

[_Black]

Well i get ur point but this is realy specific and only for maps with a freerun Button. While it would be a small quality of life change, i just dont think it will be that necessary since just a few maps have that and its not like they activate it all the time.

 

[♥Chaz♥]

Well i get ur point but this is realy specific and only for maps with a freerun Button. While it would be a small quality of life change, i just dont think it will be that necessary since just a few maps have that and its not like they activate it all the time.

True it’s only a small quantity, but as more new maps are being added and these things are becoming more common I feel like it’s a good idea to move on this asap, I’m just trying my best here to stop all the very unnecessary bans that are going around and just make things a lot more fair, even if only minimal.

 

[Madact]

Tagging deathrun crew

@Stabbin @Solar @An0n
Maybe @Mikey (again )

Some other folks I believe will be interested in this. If you no longer play deathrun sorry (you don't need to respond that you don't play it or respond at all. Just pulling your interest towards this since ya'll voted for those dr maps to come back and have visited forums since june 2022)
@CHUCKSTER @Furken @Seelkadoom @Mertes @Gnerus @Wampiranta @Caspe @Texan @T01 @Magglet @Kruphixx @MarJar

 

[Madact]

Oh didn't realise some of you all ready reacted to the thread aha

I've put up a poll too. Maybe some posts expressing opinions about concerns or support? I know you guys are out there being lurkers

 

[Solar]

i see no reason to change this rule since it will only confuse the newer players even more and far as i see only 6 maps in total rotation have this freerun option even the newer ones i checked most of em dont freeruns maybe an automode but thats about it. Im still for to keep this rule as is since i know it wil only benefit those who want to bhop/skip around the map
but thats my view on it take it with a grain or salt

 

[♥Chaz♥]

i see no reason to change this rule since it will only confuse the newer players even more and far as i see only 6 maps in total rotation have this freerun option even the newer ones i checked most of em dont freeruns maybe an automode but thats about it. Im still for to keep this rule as is since i know it wil only benefit those who want to bhop/skip around the map
but thats my view on it take it with a grain or salt

I can totally agree on when it comes to new players being confused, but that's why the rules page and forums as a whole are here. Sure I can agree on that it may only benefit those who want to bhop and skip around, but the issue with all of this is the bhop function isnt really being utilized "properly" so to speak, you can only really jinx or get really lucky by bhopping on the trap and that's really about it. With this new rule it lets players take advantage of bhop to its fullest potential, cause honestly if you don't want traps to be skipped then you may as well just remove the whole bhop function cause I see it as a main contributor to skipping. I'm sure that most of the maps could be edited in 10-30 minutes each to add a button and "freerun" text above to remove the trap buttons. While this rule might not be such an amazing idea right now, it surely would be better in the future when more new maps come out.

As for maps that only have automode honestly this rule could apply to it too considering the reaction time of automode is seriously insane, so most people wont even be able to skip the whole map without dying constantly. tho tbh automode sucks ass as a whole

 

[Jiji]

Pretty much agree with Solar here, this will just cause more confusion. There's also barely any maps that have a freerun button so yeah.

 

[An0n]

I am personally against this change. New players who read the rule will surely be confused by these exceptions since they probably won't know that maps can have freerun buttons which disable all traps. As Solar says, I can only see this change being beneficial to those who want to bhop and skip maps entirely. Moreover, admins may also have trouble keeping up with whether a round is a button-activated freerun or not if they were tabbed out or simply joined mid-round.

All in all, I find this change to be unnecessary and only wanted by the bhoppers who like speedrunning the maps.

EDIT: I will also add that this might encourage new players to skip as they may not truly know how the skipping rule works, therefore being better if they don't see other players doing it, making them believe it is allowed (and also now knowing how to skip the traps themselves)

 

[Furken]

I see where you're coming from Chaz, but like everyone else already stated it above there are currently very few maps that actually have the option to enable a freerun with a push of a button and it wouldn't warrant doing this change as of now with the select few maps that can provide this option. I have played with that thought too but dropped it back then to mostly because it would cause confusion when skipping is allowed and not.

Personally I'd like to vote yes but in the current state it makes no sense and I doubt that we will revisit each map to update it to make it freerun compatible to make this worthwhile.

 

[Mikey]

Allowing skipping only on a couple of maps really doesn't make any sense to me, as everyone has to learn and remember which maps you can skip and which you can't.
And yet again, only bhoppers would benefit from this change.

Leaving it as it is now it's easier for both admins and old/new players, win-win.

 

[Caspie]

I can understand the perspective of those who disagree about it causing confusion but I don't think its really that complicated, Nobody needs to memorize on which map you can or can't skip because you can easily tell on which you can as if the freerun button is activated in the maps that has the freerun feature the map will display a text saying so like in the picture below. Just by seeing this text you can tell that the freerun is a feature of the map and you can skip during this round

"But there aren't that many maps that have the freerun feature"
I can think of at least 20 maps that have it, many of which are picked multiple times a day.

Spoiler: Maps with freerun button that I know of

dr_lazytown_xmas
dr_neonoir_impossible_v10x
dr_dangerzone_f1n4l
dr_trump_tower_redux_v2b
dr_castle_steveh_2c
dr_supermonkeyball_v4_1
dr_waterrun_fin3
dr_madlabs
dr_tf2_museum_v5_fix
dr_ignite_v3d
dr_minefarm_final
dr_js_arcade_Final
dr_windows_xp
dr_portal2_b5c
dr_delay_b3
dr_fall_guys_v2
dr_time_travel_v5
dr_blackmesa_v3b
dr_technoir_v6_imposssible
dr_breadland_v2b
dr_doom_finished_v2
dr_nostalgia_roblox_b1a
dr_scprun_v3_fix

"It only benefit bhoppers"
So what?
It will also benefit the admins since they don't have to monitor people who skip during freeruns.

"It shows how and where trap skips are done to players who didn't know, which is not allowed"
I think most players are competent enough to figure that out without having to see somebody else doing it.

I guess if it's too confusing for new players to make a rule-change like that maybe it will be simpler if the admins simply turned a blind eye to those who skip during a map feature freerun? I dont really see the problem with that since the reasons for not allowing skipping during freerun no longer apply.

 

[♥Chaz♥]

I can understand the perspective of those who disagree about it causing confusion but I don't think its really that complicated, Nobody needs to memorize on which map you can or can't skip because you can easily tell on which you can as if the freerun button is activated in the maps that has the freerun feature the map will display a text saying so like in the picture below. Just by seeing this text you can tell that the freerun is a feature of the map and you can skip during this round


View attachment 23461

"But there aren't that many maps that have the freerun feature"
I can think of at least 20 maps that have it, many of which are picked multiple times a day.

Spoiler: Maps with freerun button that I know of

dr_lazytown_xmas
dr_neonoir_impossible_v10x
dr_dangerzone_f1n4l
dr_trump_tower_redux_v2b
dr_castle_steveh_2c
dr_supermonkeyball_v4_1
dr_waterrun_fin3
dr_madlabs
dr_tf2_museum_v5_fix
dr_ignite_v3d
dr_minefarm_final
dr_js_arcade_Final
dr_windows_xp
dr_portal2_b5c
dr_delay_b3
dr_fall_guys_v2
dr_time_travel_v5
dr_blackmesa_v3b
dr_technoir_v6_imposssible
dr_breadland_v2b
dr_doom_finished_v2
dr_nostalgia_roblox_b1a
dr_scprun_v3_fix

"It only benefit bhoppers"
So what?
It will also benefit the admins since they don't have to monitor people who skip during freeruns.

"It shows how and where trap skips are done to players who didn't know, which is not allowed"
I think most players are competent enough to figure that out without having to see somebody else doing it.

I guess if it's too confusing for new players to make a rule-change like that maybe it will be simpler if the admins simply turned a blind eye to those who skip during a map feature freerun? I dont really see the problem with that since the reasons for not allowing skipping during freerun no longer apply.

Honestly, this really does say it all to be honest. Not only do the rules i suggest benefit the admins by having them do less work, it makes things much fair for those who enjoy the bhop plugin and those who enjoy playing maps at a faster pace. It really is quite a simple and small rule to implement that can actually go a long way. As Casper listed, its a lot more than just 6 maps, there are plenty of maps which now have these types of buttons as I say, and I am very sure that more are to come.

With the maps that casper listed here, I believe it to be much more fair to add this rule now, seeing as such a large quantity of the maps on deathrun actually do have this feature implemented now. If you feel like there could be more to add regarding these rules, or what you would think would be better, please let me know and reply to the post with your opinions.

EDIT: I would also like to touch up on this that An0n said.

admins may also have trouble keeping up with whether a round is a button-activated freerun or not if they were tabbed out or simply joined mid-round.

I'm pretty sure that 90% of these maps listed play something such as freerun music, and you can simply just ask "is it a freerun".

 

[Solar]

im gonna add 1 thing to that post and its what i said in my first post there are more maps with freerun ye but only 6 of those are being used in rotation the other maps are pretty much sitting there barely played maybe once a month untill later in the night when there are 7 or so ppl playing from another continent around midnight or later that Maybe choose those maps if ever. also on those maps there is pretty much nothing that can mentioned of a skip the rest i said in post 1 not gonna sound like a broken record here

 

[♥Chaz♥]

im gonna add 1 thing to that post and its what i said in my first post there are more maps with freerun ye but only 6 of those are being used in rotation the other maps are pretty much sitting there untill later in the night when there are 7 or so ppl playing from another continent around midnight or later also on those maps there is pretty much nothing worth mentioning of a skip the rest i said in post 1 not gonna sound like a broken record here

Not worth mentioning still doesn't change the fact that they are there and they exist, and still get played.

 

[CHUCKSTER]

i dont see why confusion of newbies is such a large hurdle for this exception to a rule being accepted. just allowing it for maybe a month or two to experiment and see if it really becomes a petty change. i personally hope that in the future there is a freerun command that could remove weapons from the death and disables the +use command for death so that way it this exception could be a lot more used, instead of just maps with only a freerun button.

 

[Jiji]

i dont see why confusion of newbies is such a large hurdle for this exception to a rule being accepted. just allowing it for maybe a month or two to experiment and see if it really becomes a petty change. i personally hope that in the future there is a freerun command that could remove weapons from the death and disables the +use command for death so that way it this exception could be a lot more used, instead of just maps with only a freerun button.

I feel like experimenting with rule changes is a bad idea, would cause even MORE confusion after the experiment ends.

Rule either gets added permanently or it doesn't, no experiments.

 

[Magglet]

So, what I see most against this is the complexity of enforcing on specific maps that have the button and those that don't.

Are people against the idea of allowing skipping or just the complexity of enforcement.

Depending on what people are actually thinking, you could just make it a rule that if death announces freerun then players can skip. Then make it so you can't fake a freerun.

Not sure if this is a popular solution but I think it appeals to both sides of the arguement.

 

[An0n]

Depending on what people are actually thinking, you could just make it a rule that if death announces freerun then players can skip. Then make it so you can't fake a freerun.

So you are suggesting not one but two rule changes. Seems like an even more complicated "solution". Completely against this.