Declined 3 Jailbreak rule suggestions. (1 Viewer)

[Dandy]

Allow teamkilling of mass freekillers. It's obtuse that it's not allowed, when there are 0 server admins.

Add DeathRequest rules.

Add BLU vandalism to the rules.

 

[Justin | XplosiveAction]

I agree 100% for the 2nd and 3rd.
1st as much as it makes sense and as much as the "lives of the reds that are lost" during the time that FF is turned on outweighing the remaining alive-reds, is a problem. Unless warden said "do not attack your own teammates" which can potentially result in a lot of reds killing each other and it being hard to keep track of who killed who, this is hard to achieve.

For DR rules it's evident that the DR has to involve the Red dying, however if the red wants to try and trick the blues in order to rebel (without delaying by like hiding somewhere for a while), then that is allowed. We should really have some Jeopardy/Trivia DR rules, such as "the warden cannot slay them self" and "when the warden and the player with DR are the last ones alive the Reds DR is over and can be killed by the warden"

And for BLU vandalism, my "work around" is that blues are meant to be active guards as it states in the rules, and for the most part breaking something on any map is for reds to rebel more easily be it getting into armory or escaping some place, so by assisting a red to rebel, you are not being an active guard. And if it's NOT something that is used to help reds rebel, chances are you are just being an inactive guard, an example being going to fall game in famous and breaking the platforms, either the reds are IN the game which you shouldn't be in as well, or you aren't where you need to be.

Someone I know brought up a good point however, asking "what if it's LGKA and breaking something helps me get to the reds faster" such as if you are in pool on space jail and want to flank the reds/rebellers by breaking the pool vents. Tbh I think BLU vandalism should be allowed when it's LGKA for this reason: to allow the last guard to have alternate and unexpected routes to the reds. This would make for more fun LGKA's in my opinion, and since it's already a freeday for all/lgka since the warden died, the reds have taken the path of the rebeller for the most part, and breaking walls would not harm the round in any way. There's no DR, no LR, just last team-standing.

I think red vandalism should be re-established as well. Just a better description either saying "reds can break direct entrances to armory only. this means that there is only 1-layer of a breakable wall that enters the armory), unless we just want it to be "any breakable that is directly attached to the armory" to include minecart, obviously.

 

[ZeroPC]

I'm going to give my honest opinion on this. Just a friendly reminder that I am not trying to insult, offend, or hurt anyone with the following feedback I have.

First off, I think it's pretty obvious but mass free killers simply ruin the fun and ruin the game. Most of them consistently free kill as many reds as they can because they think it's "fun". Mass free killers only come on Jailbreak servers to do two things: cause trouble, and mass freekill.

Some solutions we have tried:

A. All Blus (minus the freekiller) switching to Red to mass rebel against the free killer until he gets bored and disconnects
- Ineffective
- Blus barely cooperated half the time

B. Reporting on forums
- While this is technically the most proper and appropriate solution, it does take time for reports to go through. Often when we have mass free killers, we kind of need a fast/easy solution that works immediately

C. Team killing the killer
- Most effective, however violates the guards team killing policy
- People say that we should never team kill, and we shouldn't, but when we kill a mass free killer that has caused trouble for let's say 3 rounds in a row. People are often thankful of this. However there are always those people who think the guard team killing the free killer is much worse than everything the mfk has done because it "breaks a rule"

I have never team killed a free killer myself to play it safe with the rules, but I feel like situations like this should be called as an exception for dealing with mass free killers. We have had them on for quite a long time constantly free killing reds and ruining the rounds. Why should we enforce the guard team killing rule against this? It simply encourages the free killer to continue their actions.

However, this comes with the risk of Reds team killing each other for fun while attempting to deal with mfks. This is where it gets tricky. One would simply say the warden can say "Do not team kill or you will be kos" and leave it at that, but it gets more complicated as it keeps going. The Reds can do whatever they are capable of doing during FF, but this is a completely different topic. Still ties in to what I'm saying

Overall, I personally wouldn't mind the team killing of mass free killers rule being added, but I would say that it comes with great risk that should be considered with taking every possible event that can happen during the situation

 

[Freekill Lord]

if you teamkill a mass freekiller you are worst than him

 

[ZeroPC]

I'm going to give my honest opinion on this. Just a friendly reminder that I am not trying to insult, offend, or hurt anyone with the following feedback I have.

First off, I think it's pretty obvious but mass free killers simply ruin the fun and ruin the game. Most of them consistently free kill as many reds as they can because they think it's "fun". Mass free killers only come on Jailbreak servers to do two things: cause trouble, and mass freekill.

Some solutions we have tried:

A. All Blus (minus the freekiller) switching to Red to mass rebel against the free killer until he gets bored and disconnects
- Ineffective
- Blus barely cooperated half the time

B. Reporting on forums
- While this is technically the most proper and appropriate solution, it does take time for reports to go through. Often when we have mass free killers, we kind of need a fast/easy solution that works immediately

C. Team killing the killer
- Most effective, however violates the guards team killing policy
- People say that we should never team kill, and we shouldn't, but when we kill a mass free killer that has caused trouble for let's say 3 rounds in a row. People are often thankful of this. However there are always those people who think the guard team killing the free killer is much worse than everything the mfk has done because it "breaks a rule"

I have never team killed a free killer myself to play it safe with the rules, but I feel like situations like this should be called as an exception for dealing with mass free killers. We have had them on for quite a long time constantly free killing reds and ruining the rounds. Why should we enforce the guard team killing rule against this? It simply encourages the free killer to continue their actions.

However, this comes with the risk of Reds team killing each other for fun while attempting to deal with mfks. This is where it gets tricky. One would simply say the warden can say "Do not team kill or you will be kos" and leave it at that, but it gets more complicated as it keeps going. The Reds can do whatever they are capable of doing during FF, but this is a completely different topic. Still ties in to what I'm saying

Overall, I personally wouldn't mind the team killing of mass free killers rule being added, but I would say that it comes with great risk that should be considered with taking every possible event that can happen during the situation

I want to clarify that I am not on either side. Just simply giving my feedback and vision on the idea

 

[Dandy]

@Jim @TheWalkingCake Feedback would be much appreciated. Alternatives, why you think such and such, etc.

 

[Justin | XplosiveAction]

surprised you havent actually replied with your thoughts on our thoughts Ketteii (me and zero)

and @ZeroPC
"However, this comes with the risk of Reds team killing each other for fun while attempting to deal with mfks. This is where it gets tricky. One would simply say the warden can say "Do not team kill or you will be kos" and leave it at that, but it gets more complicated as it keeps going. The Reds can do whatever they are capable of doing during FF, but this is a completely different topic. Still ties in to what I'm saying"
Basically what I was saying above about how the potential to save a round outweighs the reds that might die due to FF in the cells. Again if the reds can comply to the warden saying "dont kill your team mates" then that would be ideal.

Additional problem, mass team killing by the MFKer. FF can completely BACKFIRE and the warden can be killed, leaving FF on with no way to turn it off and causing the round to turn for the worse. Now yes in theory not all blues will be near a MFKer when FF is on to all die at the same time, and if team killing a MFKer was allowed, then remaining blues can attempt to get said MFKer, but the round would still pretty much be ruined.

It honestly boils down to "will it work this time or not" and at least the act of trying to salvage a round can be argued to be better then letting a round progress with the inevitable moment of a MFK breaking out.

 

[ZeroPC]

surprised you havent actually replied with your thoughts on our thoughts Ketteii (me and zero)

and @ZeroPC
"However, this comes with the risk of Reds team killing each other for fun while attempting to deal with mfks. This is where it gets tricky. One would simply say the warden can say "Do not team kill or you will be kos" and leave it at that, but it gets more complicated as it keeps going. The Reds can do whatever they are capable of doing during FF, but this is a completely different topic. Still ties in to what I'm saying"
Basically what I was saying above about how the potential to save a round outweighs the reds that might die due to FF in the cells. Again if the reds can comply to the warden saying "dont kill your team mates" then that would be ideal.

Additional problem, mass team killing by the MFKer. FF can completely BACKFIRE and the warden can be killed, leaving FF on with no way to turn it off and causing the round to turn for the worse. Now yes in theory not all blues will be near a MFKer when FF is on to all die at the same time, and if team killing a MFKer was allowed, then remaining blues can attempt to get said MFKer, but the round would still pretty much be ruined.

It honestly boils down to "will it work this time or not" and at least the act of trying to salvage a round can be argued to be better then letting a round progress with the inevitable moment of a MFK breaking out.

That's another issue as well and I was going to mention that, but I was short on time. Honestly, that may be one of the worst cases. Sometimes if both the MFK and Warden die during the FF, some guard rewardens to turn off FF and then slays themselves immediately, but even so. Guards cannot rewarden after the cell doors have opened. So this just leaves more complications. All I am saying is that something should be done about mass free killers to avoid so many round sabotages.

 

[Madact]

I will mention the last two mentioned are being worked on.

As for the first suggestion, I'm actually curious. Although people are against it here in the comments, I've added a poll out of curiosity.

 

[LDW115]

I will mention the last two mentioned are being worked on.

As for the first suggestion, I'm actually curious. Although people are against it here in the comments, I've added a poll out of curiosity.

Well that poll tells us absolutely nothing lol except that no one agrees

I think that the argument or worst case scenario of the round being completely lost because the warden died with FF on is no worse than a normal MFK round so imo you have nothing to lose, if the MFK lives, the round is lost, if the warden dies the round is lost so what is there to lose by trying to salvage the round?

As for the other suggestions, I think BLU vandalism and vandalism, in general, should be reworked.

For instance, is it really terrible if a BLU breaks a window to shoot a rebeller? I would say no.
What about if REDs are in the sewer so a BLU chases them, but the reds never broke an exit, is the BLU stuck down there all round?
I think the armory part is confusing. I know that I was on the server a few days ago and Code seemed to interpret this rule as "direct entrances to armory only" so when a red broke a vent that led to the armory, he was killed because there was another vent that also led to the armory.

Death Request needs rules and needs a time limit. IMO its a delay of the round if the DR is to play climb for 8 mins and just rather silly.
There are no rules on death request, hell DR is defined as death run in the rulebook it needs to get a rule set. "Informal" rules are just silliness and should be added to the rulebook so people can see them. For instance, why cant the warden slay themselves or otherwise purposely die in DR, does this mean they cant participate in a DR that would kill them or would be likely to kill them? There are just many questions that established rules would answer and the server would benefit from

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

Alright I'm only going to bother with the death request and some of blue vandalism because the rest is opinionated or grey area

What about if REDs are in the sewer so a BLU chases them, but the reds never broke an exit, is the BLU stuck down there all round?

Most people already just vandalize to get out since if they don't they would be an inactive guard and since there is no other way out its an unwritten rule that you can vandalize to leave.

I know that I was on the server a few days ago and Code seemed to interpret this rule as "direct entrances to armory only" so when a red broke a vent that led to the armory, he was killed because there was another vent that also led to the armory.

Going to assume you are talking about hopjb's vents. The vents are direct entrances since they lead directly to armory and the vent covering the armory hole can only be broken by going up the ladder so its not really a breakable since punching it or shooting it from the other side doesn't break it.

Death Request needs rules and needs a time limit.

Warden can assign one or guards can force lgka if they want to.

why cant the warden slay themselves or otherwise purposely die in DR, does this mean they cant participate in a DR that would kill them or would be likely to kill them?

True warden can't slay themselves for dr or freeday but the current rules don't say anything about warden dying to map hazards so warden can participate if he wants.

 

[LDW115]

Alright I'm only going to bother with the death request and some of blue vandalism because the rest is opinionated or grey area

Most people already just vandalize to get out since if they don't they would be an inactive guard and since there is no other way out its an unwritten rule that you can vandalize to leave.

Going to assume you are talking about hopjb's vents. The vents are direct entrances since they lead directly to armory and the vent covering the armory hole can only be broken by going up the ladder so its not really a breakable since punching it or shooting it from the other side doesn't break it.


Warden can assign one or guards can force lgka if they want to.


True warden can't slay themselves for dr or freeday but the current rules don't say anything about warden dying to map hazards so warden can participate if he wants.

I agree with all of what you said I would just want it moved from unwritten rules or grey area to additions to the actual rulebook

 

[Madact]

Well that poll tells us absolutely nothing lol except that no one agrees

I think that the argument or worst case scenario of the round being completely lost because the warden died with FF on is no worse than a normal MFK round so imo you have nothing to lose, if the MFK lives, the round is lost, if the warden dies the round is lost so what is there to lose by trying to salvage the round?

As for the other suggestions, I think BLU vandalism and vandalism, in general, should be reworked.

For instance, is it really terrible if a BLU breaks a window to shoot a rebeller? I would say no.
What about if REDs are in the sewer so a BLU chases them, but the reds never broke an exit, is the BLU stuck down there all round?
I think the armory part is confusing. I know that I was on the server a few days ago and Code seemed to interpret this rule as "direct entrances to armory only" so when a red broke a vent that led to the armory, he was killed because there was another vent that also led to the armory.

Death Request needs rules and needs a time limit. IMO its a delay of the round if the DR is to play climb for 8 mins and just rather silly.
There are no rules on death request, hell DR is defined as death run in the rulebook it needs to get a rule set. "Informal" rules are just silliness and should be added to the rulebook so people can see them. For instance, why cant the warden slay themselves or otherwise purposely die in DR, does this mean they cant participate in a DR that would kill them or would be likely to kill them? There are just many questions that established rules would answer and the server would benefit from

Most of the stuff mentioned here is place in the edits I have to put into the rules.
I'll look to adding them this weekend, keep an eye out If not this weekend, next week.

I removed the limit limit on dr and lr and just thought the logic could be applied to the rule 'no detours and delays' to mark them KOS if all they are doing is running about delaying the round from progressing.

It's good you guys mentioned about the dr warden slaying themselves. I'll consider adding that.

Breaking rules in it include exceptions to chasing rebeler (mainly applies to jb_hop vents) and no other way out of a particular area (mainly applies to sewers on famous 2). Plus ofc, official blu vandale will be a thing.

I'm going to close this up, pm me if you need to discuss anything.