Completed [FF2] Military changes (1 Viewer)

[Macko]

These changes have been discussed on the discord server, but there are still some mixed opinions on a thing or two, one of them being removed entirely.

Map changes:
- Fixed map exploits
- Fixed floating props and incorrect map geometry
- Added clip brushes to stairs
- Decreased HP/Ammo crates to medium size
- Moved Capture Point closer to Boss spawn, increased required capture time to 15 seconds
- Removed invisible wall above middle tower


- Added extra cover around the map
> Other versions of military had different attributes and layout designs.

• OG Military had a smaller & thicker tower with an invisible wall above it, taller bridge, palm trees that provide cover and a silo next to RED Spawn which also provides cover
• Forest version had environmental fog, similar sized tower, pine trees that offered even more cover than the palm trees, same silo next to RED Spawn, and most importantly it had a unique bridge layout with lots of extra cover both from props and from the map geometry

> My point is, OG Military was bad, really bad, Forest Military helped even things out for Hales a little bit, considering that the map is pretty RED Sided, so I took some initiative and added extra cover on this edition which can offer hales some breathing space from Sentry and Amp Heavy hailstorm paired with insane knockback, and the fact that the bridge itself is way lower than in the other two versions, so theres basically 0 to none cover on the map, apart from the containers that lay around.

I am adding a short poll on the topic of that change.

Map pictures:

Spoiler: Pics

 

[Macko]

Voting has concluded, there are more yeses than noes.

Out of the two Yes options, the one "without" covers won.

Covers will be left out, once that`s done the file will be sent over to whoever is in charge of updating map files.

@Madact please close this thread.

 

[Otis/Uncodex]

Think a re-vote is more sensible. Make it more clear & absolute. This is a bit too open for interpretation.

 

[Manvid]

Now hold on there - Not all yeses are on the same page here:

The "Yes" option is implying to keep the covers as it is, something EKJMNY45 and You voted on.
The "Yes but remove the covers" Option is people voting for a version where the covers are removed, something the two votes Did not agree upon.

This makes the total yes votes not unified, and therefore not with the same unilateral stance.

So for a more clear option, I suggest to Re-vote, but now noting that Yes will add the map and remove the cover, while no will not add the map.

 

[Macko]

Although covers would be better, I do not mind whether theyre included or not, that still makes it a tie in that case.

Gotta wait on @Madact

 

[EKJMNY45]

@Madact
im also fine with the covers removed, so factor my vote in with the "yes, but remove covers" vote

 

[Madact]

Lets make that official then with a new poll. It'll stop any issues in the future of people changing their votes in posts after the poll is closed.
This is also a very close call with 4 vote options, rather than just 2. If it's 8-7 again with only 2 options, then it's a yes. The map will receive the update.

I would though like feedback from the no votes. What exactly they dislike about the change. Would help clear up what part of this update most disagree with because reading this from a non ff2 perspective it sounds good.

@Macko @EKJMNY45 @Liha @Aerial @Autismo @Salgo @DarkSM @Ariv @nexuS @Otis @Manvid @ToastUnderABox @Heavy @Delf @h4zy
please revote

 

[Otis/Uncodex]

(on a personal level)
I personally am of the belief map updates should be done by trusted members of the community(or devs), such as Kruphixx or Skull. At present I do not consider Macko to be a trustworthy person to edit, update or otherwise publish maps. (Mind you this is personal interactions inside and outside Panda, which I won't go into further detail)
This entire thread so far has been a bit of a mess despite the fact it’s supposed to be a very straightforward thing. Conclusions the OP made are contrary to what the votes actually showed.

(on a more tangible and serious response)
All in all, I will be sticking to my no.

Not all changes were mentioned like on the Discord thread. I don't get the reasoning behind this...
Some changes such as the ''Easter Egg'' one seem unnecessary.
(All changes as of now)

• ​
  Spoiler: Changes here

  • Fixed an "out of bounds" exploit,
  • Added clip brushes to stairs,
  • Added clip brushes under the towers,
  • Corrected all of the floating props,
  • Reset fade distance on some props,
  • Recoloured half of the containers,
  • Swapped Large HP/Ammo packs to medium ones (exceptions being the spot left of the RED Spawn which has small variants and the middle tower with large variants),
  • Increased the point capture timer from 5 to 15 seconds,
  • Moved the capture point to BLUs bridge,
  • Fixed incorrect geometry around the map,
  • Added extra cover around the map,
  • Replaced and added new Observer Camera positions,
  • Added background ambience,
  • Made roof accessible, added trigger_push,
    Added an Easter egg

  [*]
  
  
  

 

[Macko]

(on a personal level)
I personally am of the belief map updates should be done by trusted members of the community(or devs), such as Kruphixx or Skull. At present I do not consider Macko to be a trustworthy person to edit, update or otherwise publish maps. (Mind you this is personal interactions inside and outside Panda, which I won't go into further detail)
This entire thread so far has been a bit of a mess despite the fact it’s supposed to be a very straightforward thing. Conclusions the OP made are contrary to what the votes actually showed.

(on a more tangible and serious response)
All in all, I will be sticking to my no.

Not all changes were mentioned like on the Discord thread. I don't get the reasoning behind this...
Some changes such as the ''Easter Egg'' one seem unnecessary.
(All changes as of now)

• ​
  Spoiler: Changes here

  • Fixed an "out of bounds" exploit,
  • Added clip brushes to stairs,
  • Added clip brushes under the towers,
  • Corrected all of the floating props,
  • Reset fade distance on some props,
  • Recoloured half of the containers,
  • Swapped Large HP/Ammo packs to medium ones (exceptions being the spot left of the RED Spawn which has small variants and the middle tower with large variants),
  • Increased the point capture timer from 5 to 15 seconds,
  • Moved the capture point to BLUs bridge,
  • Fixed incorrect geometry around the map,
  • Added extra cover around the map,
  • Replaced and added new Observer Camera positions,
  • Added background ambience,
  • Made roof accessible, added trigger_push,
    Added an Easter egg

  [*]

I guess I need to clarify what I meant by "one of the things being removed" to some people.

The last thing was removed, that being the easter egg, as per the discord discussion, even though it`s nothing to cry about (literally a visual change).

Other things that were not mentioned are QoL (Quality of Life) changes that do not impact the map nor gameplay in the grand scheme of things, compared to Stair Clipping,
which offers hundreds of possibilities and is a genuine necessity which does deserve to be mentioned to the broader FF2 audience here on forums.
Writing every change, like on discord, would just cause unnecessary cluttering.
Hell, I could`ve gone into even more details regarding which props had their fade distances changed (even though theyre not as important because of their general positions on the map, its just that being far away from them would make it look as if someones floating in air)

Some of the changes were reworded to make them easier to understand rather than going into details.

I don`t get what trust has to do with something as simple as map edits, rather funny if you ask me, lame excuse.

 

[Otis/Uncodex]

One of the core things I've brought up was 'trust' being an issue with you. Your dismissing my concern regarding this tells me all I need to know from this point forward.
I'll give you the point for the Easter Egg part if that is now a solved matter.
You, as the original poster, have the responsibility (imo) to write about your changes. Omitting any of it, basing it on 'relevance' (or 'cluttering), seems just disingenuous.

To stop this back and forth...
This will be now my last response, since I will not be open for any further dialogue beyond Discord.
With the OP's clarifications I might reconsider later down the line to re-vote. Purely on the factual basis, not the personal ones

And I wish to make this abundantly clear, this isn't to stir drama but reflects personal opinion & interaction.

 

[Madact]

@Macko

Is the map file / stripper ready?

 

[Macko]

@Macko

Is the map file / stripper ready?

 

[Madact]

Done. Let me know if there's any issues.

Spoiler: votes