Declined [USJB] Diner Rule Change (1 Viewer)

[salguod]

Currently, The jailbreak rule for the diner minigame state that:

In the event of a tie, Wardens can override the decision in whichever direction they want.

This rule was added before the warden had an option to initiate a blue team vote. Now, in the event of a tie, the blue team vote randomly selects which option wins.
My suggestion is to remove the quoted specification. With the vote plugin randomly selecting, it seems unnecessary to have this in the rules, as the plugin auto chooses, and its sort of favoring as they place the warden as the sole decider.

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

All for this. Really I don't see any reason why this favoritism-breeding rule shouldn't go.

 

[_Black]

The warden decision was that warden has to state wether ALL incoming ties die or survive at the start of the game. To avoid favoring.
If its really that much of an issue to figure it out then i´d say let vote rng figure it out.

 

[Kron]

The warden decision was that warden has to state wether ALL incoming ties die or survive at the start of the game. To avoid favoring.
If its really that much of an issue to figure it out then i´d say let vote rng figure it out.

For this reason specifically I say to let it remain as it is. Warden deciding all ties (at the beginning) really prevents favoritism rather than adding to it.

 

[salguod]

The warden decision was that warden has to state wether ALL incoming ties die or survive at the start of the game. To avoid favoring.
If its really that much of an issue to figure it out then i´d say let vote rng figure it out.

Thats not very well specified in the current rules, and is more convoluted (and may not happen every round due to wardens not knowing of such rule due to the rule not being specific/them not reading the rules)rather than using the plugin for it's full purpose.

 

[Kron]

Thats not very well specified in the current rules, and is more convoluted (and may not happen every round due to wardens not knowing of such rule due to the rule not being specific/them not reading the rules)rather than using the plugin for it's full purpose.

Personally I haven't seen that, but I do agree that perhaps it should be clarified rather than removed.

 

[Bananawastaken]

With the vote plugin randomly selecting, it seems unnecessary to have this in the rules, as the plugin auto chooses,

The problem is, the plugin isn’t mandatory to use, it isn’t the only way to play the game.

 

[Kron]

The problem is, the plugin isn’t mandatory to use, it isn’t the only way to play the game.

Would the same rule not apply? Even if they decided over voice and the warden said beforehand that all ties for example resulted in the red dying, would it not be beneficial for at least the clarification of it?

 

[ait]

you can never eliminate favoring only minimize it, so it kinda feels unnecessary to change the rule tbh. let the warden choose if they wanna decide or use the random vote decider

thats my opinion on this

 

[Gale]

Honestly I'd argue not using the plugin is probably breeding grounds for a lot of favoritism and opportunity for doing so. Letting the coinflip decide instead of a warden just saying, "I fuck with you so you live" feels very wrong. Or to imagine that a warden just straight up lies about the voting responses. I'd really personally just let the plugin decide, or to rewrite the rule in a manner that makes it explicitly clear wardens vote should not take priority. Voting in team chat is such an archaic method at this point and just shouldn't be done anymore, nor is it ever really done besides old old wardens.

 

[SirKrookodile]

This once again brings up the issue of whether or not the vote plugin should be mandatory.
Pros - Makes counting votes easier, Randomly picks yes or no in the result of a tie.
Cons - Blue vote is on the 2nd page of warden menu so it's oftentimes overlooked by new players as it's not made directly avaliable. There's a cooldown between activating votes which can further delay mass diner/theater whereas voting in team chat is purely reliant on the blues actually voting.
Ultimately, I believe warden should state at the beginning of diner/theater "ties mean the red dies/lives" which means in the case of a tie the result doesn't change between players.

 

[Dr. Meatloaf]

I feel like I see most people interpret this as warden decides in all cases, which is kind of an issue. Maybe the rule itself should change to make it more clear. Perhaps re-wording the rule would be enough or maybe we should just write into the rules that a majority is needed to win or a majority is enough to win. Either way it doesn’t really matter we just need some consistent standard.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Kinda feel like Diner/Theatre should be treated like Trivia, wherein Warden states the rules beforehand.
Obviously if there are an odd number of blus this isn't needed, but stating beforehand for an even amount of blus that ties are KOS/not KOS, or if the rng of the vote menu will decide.

 

[Ahamkara's Vow]

I partially feel like this poll happened because of yesterday. Someone's LR was Diner all day. There was a tie and since I was warden I voted to keep the red alive and ended up with some people being upset that I did that, because the plugin did say "No". I feel like warden shouldn't be able to break ties in case of plugin. Just to prevent more cases of everybody shouting at each other like yesterday.

 

[salguod]

Personally I haven't seen that, but I do agree that perhaps it should be clarified rather than removed.

I feel a clarification would be useful with black’s interpretation if this suggestion gets declined/reinterpreted.

The problem is, the plugin isn’t mandatory to use, it isn’t the only way to play the game.

While it is true that the plugin doesn’t have to be used over team chat votes, ever since this plugin got added I haven’t seen a single person use team chat since, and if they did try to do they always get yelled at by other blue players and end up doing the plugin vote anyways.
Additionally, you are right they are different ways to play the game, which is why the current rule at hand is outdated, as it was only written in mind for the team chat votes. The vote plugin needs to also be taken into account(especially since it’s the main way to vote in diner now), and I feel like in it’s case it would be best to use the plugin to its full potential and decide randomly rather than the warden overriding all.

you can never eliminate favoring only minimize it, so it kinda feels unnecessary to change the rule tbh. let the warden choose if they wanna decide or use the random vote decider

thats my opinion on this

While the first part is true(especially on vote based mini games) , I feel like it is necessary to add it. It’s weird to have one warden have a tie and override it to his opinion, and another warden letting the plugin decide for them. in this instance, the first option seems like an unneeded instance of favoring that could be easily fixed.

This once again brings up the issue of whether or not the vote plugin should be mandatory.
Pros - Makes counting votes easier, Randomly picks yes or no in the result of a tie.
Cons - Blue vote is on the 2nd page of warden menu so it's oftentimes overlooked by new players as it's not made directly avaliable. There's a cooldown between activating votes which can further delay mass diner/theater whereas voting in team chat is purely reliant on the blues actually voting.
Ultimately, I believe warden should state at the beginning of diner/theater "ties mean the red dies/lives" which means in the case of a tie the result doesn't change between players.

Kinda feel like Diner/Theatre should be treated like Trivia, wherein Warden states the rules beforehand.
Obviously if there are an odd number of blus this isn't needed, but stating beforehand for an even amount of blus that ties are KOS/not KOS, or if the rng of the vote menu will decide.

This feels like an arbitrary set of cons to the problem at hand. New wardens that “unsmart” to even find out about the next page of the warden menu with the big button that says “9. Next” usually die within 2 minutes of the round starting, let alone making it to theater/diner. The cooldown has never been an issue, either. Usually diner is chosen with time in mind due to how slow it can go, and it was even slow when you had to do team chat votes.
Ultimately, prefacing whether the reds would live/die feels not needed over just using the plugin. Wardens barely ever override ties over using the random answer that the vote plugin gives, so it would be extra weird to have them preface who lives/dies rather than just the random choice.

I partially feel like this poll happened because of yesterday. Someone's LR was Diner all day. There was a tie and since I was warden I voted to keep the red alive and ended up with some people being upset that I did that, because the plugin did say "No". I feel like warden shouldn't be able to break ties in case of plugin. Just to prevent more cases of everybody shouting at each other like yesterday.

This


If there is a popular opinion that you guys want added to the poll/would rather vote for, lmk and I’ll add it to the poll if I’m able to.

 

[ait]

actually im changing my opinion on this, forcing warden to do coinflip doesn't add extra step rather makes the round smoother during theatre and diner or whatever requires vote

edit: although it would be sad if an actual good performance goes to waste due to coinflip but that would depend on persons luck itself, the entire game is kinda on luck from what i've seen so not very big difference.

edit 2: maybe this is another reason not to add it, i don't know at this point

 

[salguod]

actually im changing my opinion on this, forcing warden to do coinflip doesn't add extra step rather makes the round smoother during theatre and diner or whatever requires vote

edit: although it would be sad if an actual good performance goes to waste due to coinflip but that would depend on persons luck itself, the entire game is kinda on luck from what i've seen so not very big difference.

edit 2: maybe this is another reason not to add it, i don't know at this point

While I can see where you come from on edit 1, I don’t think that great of a performance would result in a tie

 

[ait]

While I can see where you come from on edit 1, I don’t think that great of a performance would result in a tie

ah just some random thing i remembered.

do we really get a lot of tie breakers that it becomes an issue? and also warden gotta add another vote on top of their intial vote anyways so i figured why not just exclude wardens vote? that would almost make it like a coinflip if im thinking right

edit: exclude it during tiebreaker only*

 

[salguod]

ah just some random thing i remembered.

do we really get a lot of tie breakers that it becomes an issue? and also warden gotta add another vote on top of their intial vote anyways so i figured why not just exclude wardens vote? that would almost make it like a coinflip if im thinking right

edit: exclude it during tiebreaker only*

When I’m on for a long time, it happens more than you’d think. Usually they just go with the random selection but sometimes the warden overrides and it causes noise from when I’ve been on. Excluding the wardens vote feels like a bit of an extra hurdle of a solution over an admittedly simple suggestion with the 2 options given.

 

[Bananawastaken]

Lowkey I'm down to just get rid of warden decides and say all ties are a yes