I saw the little debate on the ghosting rule I wrote in a recent appeal so I thought I’d come clarify that particular part of the rule and also reflect on it a bit in general.
Relevant thread: https://www.panda-community.com/threads/unfair-gag.17816/
Two people were saying that the current rule only applies to VSH and FF2. Current rule:
"Communicating game-related information while in team spectator or while being dead in VSH or FF2 to give players an advantage is forbidden. If there is only one (group of) player(s) left alive in VSH or FF2 and they are explicitly waiting for the boss to find them, it is okay to tell the boss where they are to avoid wasting time. This is the only exception to this rule."
I’ll get to the problems I now have with the current wording later, but first of all: some people were under the impression that the “in VSH or FF2” part relates to everything that comes before, but this is not the case. You need to take it as 2 separate things: communicating game-related information while in team spectator of any server is forbidden; and also, if you are dead in VSH or FF2, which are arena game modes where being dead is practically being a spectator, communicating game-related information is also forbidden.
The fact that this rule is under the “General Rules” category and not the server-specific rules should be a dead giveaway of that, but I understand that the sentence itself sounds ambiguous.
Ghosting in general can be complicated to judge in certain situations. I’m about to rant a little about it, which might make the admins want to re-evaluate the way it’s seen and handed.
I remember an episode a long time ago in Class Warfare (another arena mode), where I got killed and said in team chat “there are 2 Pyros in X location”. Madact was present too and said that was ghosting (she didn't punish me though <3). And just going off the rule the way it’s written, that would be correct. I was dead and I gave my team information. By the current definition, that’s ghosting. However, the 2 Pyros were the ones who killed me, and so I already had that information while I was alive. I wasn’t spectating one of my team’s players or sitting in team spectator to find out and relay that information, so it’s not ghosting in the way I intended it in the rule.
(Unless someone is really slow with typing, admins can easily see either in the killfeed or maybe the console that the person who just gave away a location died only just now. I see no practical issues in allowing a player to say where the person who killed them is located.)
I’ve said this before and will say it every time: the way I wrote the rules was based on a time span of about a week or two of me thinking about them and the community’s feedback. I encourage the community to keep updating them based on new servers (the original rule only mentions VSH and FF2, but we also have Class Warfare, Prop Hunt, and how many other arena servers?), new situations that make people re-evaluate how a rule should be seen and judged, and other things.
If I were to re-write the rule now, it might look more like this:
“You are not allowed to communicate game-related information to players while you are spectating (either via Team Spectator or while spectating players in Arena mode). An exception to this rule is when certain players have been camping for an extended time (or an Engineer's base is the last player or group of players left in VSH/FF2 and they are clearly waiting for the Boss) and giving their position away serves to move the game along.”
A bit wordy, especially with the VSH/FF2 part added in (perhaps you could leave that out in the General rule but clarify that bit for Arena servers only?). But anyways, by all I can tell right now, this covers the forbidden instances of ghosting but leaves open the possibility of me doing what I did in the Class Warfare example, as I wasn't yet spectating anyone. Of course judgment still comes into play for what “game-related information” is acceptable or not. I have no clue about the example in the appeal that sparked this thread because I never played Jailbreak, and I won’t even bother judging it. This is up to other people who are active in those servers. Anyways, just some thoughts about the rule, how I feel it works, and how clarifying it might be possible.
Tuning out.
Relevant thread: https://www.panda-community.com/threads/unfair-gag.17816/
Two people were saying that the current rule only applies to VSH and FF2. Current rule:
"Communicating game-related information while in team spectator or while being dead in VSH or FF2 to give players an advantage is forbidden. If there is only one (group of) player(s) left alive in VSH or FF2 and they are explicitly waiting for the boss to find them, it is okay to tell the boss where they are to avoid wasting time. This is the only exception to this rule."
I’ll get to the problems I now have with the current wording later, but first of all: some people were under the impression that the “in VSH or FF2” part relates to everything that comes before, but this is not the case. You need to take it as 2 separate things: communicating game-related information while in team spectator of any server is forbidden; and also, if you are dead in VSH or FF2, which are arena game modes where being dead is practically being a spectator, communicating game-related information is also forbidden.
The fact that this rule is under the “General Rules” category and not the server-specific rules should be a dead giveaway of that, but I understand that the sentence itself sounds ambiguous.
Ghosting in general can be complicated to judge in certain situations. I’m about to rant a little about it, which might make the admins want to re-evaluate the way it’s seen and handed.
I remember an episode a long time ago in Class Warfare (another arena mode), where I got killed and said in team chat “there are 2 Pyros in X location”. Madact was present too and said that was ghosting (she didn't punish me though <3). And just going off the rule the way it’s written, that would be correct. I was dead and I gave my team information. By the current definition, that’s ghosting. However, the 2 Pyros were the ones who killed me, and so I already had that information while I was alive. I wasn’t spectating one of my team’s players or sitting in team spectator to find out and relay that information, so it’s not ghosting in the way I intended it in the rule.
(Unless someone is really slow with typing, admins can easily see either in the killfeed or maybe the console that the person who just gave away a location died only just now. I see no practical issues in allowing a player to say where the person who killed them is located.)
I’ve said this before and will say it every time: the way I wrote the rules was based on a time span of about a week or two of me thinking about them and the community’s feedback. I encourage the community to keep updating them based on new servers (the original rule only mentions VSH and FF2, but we also have Class Warfare, Prop Hunt, and how many other arena servers?), new situations that make people re-evaluate how a rule should be seen and judged, and other things.
If I were to re-write the rule now, it might look more like this:
“You are not allowed to communicate game-related information to players while you are spectating (either via Team Spectator or while spectating players in Arena mode). An exception to this rule is when certain players have been camping for an extended time (or an Engineer's base is the last player or group of players left in VSH/FF2 and they are clearly waiting for the Boss) and giving their position away serves to move the game along.”
A bit wordy, especially with the VSH/FF2 part added in (perhaps you could leave that out in the General rule but clarify that bit for Arena servers only?). But anyways, by all I can tell right now, this covers the forbidden instances of ghosting but leaves open the possibility of me doing what I did in the Class Warfare example, as I wasn't yet spectating anyone. Of course judgment still comes into play for what “game-related information” is acceptable or not. I have no clue about the example in the appeal that sparked this thread because I never played Jailbreak, and I won’t even bother judging it. This is up to other people who are active in those servers. Anyways, just some thoughts about the rule, how I feel it works, and how clarifying it might be possible.
Tuning out.