Suggestions on dm_duel maps (1 Viewer)

[Hisu]

1. Please mod in that snipers couldn't be vaccinated and thus made invincible for other snipers. It's worse than croco set (which I had no problem with as it just forced players to change their tactics, which is universally a good thing) and completely ruins sniper dueling that occur a lot on dm_duel maps.

2. I would very much like some changes to goomba stomping. First, I suggest turning it off for invisible and invincible. The reason is, as goomba stomping is a sure kill, everyone must be able to anticipate and/or avoid it. Second, I would like goomba stomp instakill to trump ubercharge ('just cause it's fun) AND rtd's godmode effect (to award skill).

3. By the way, I have a few suggestions about how RTD should work on this map. First, there are too many people abusing oneshot rtds like toxic and instakill, just W+M1'ing and spamming the rtd command. There is no skill AND there is no fun in this. Second, what exactly do I propose is to limit both toxic and instakill effects to, say, once a session per player and once an hour globally.

4. Next, about spamming. I have three ideas. First is to mod in that clips for explosive weapons will not refill upon hitting the refill locker. Second is to remove the -15 metal penalty on Short Circuit for clearing spammables that lay motionless, so it will counter spam while not giving engie an incentive to go w+m1 on soldiers. My third idea is about infinite ammo rtd. I think it will be good to replace infinite clips will quick reload, so there will be no such ridiculous things like an endless 20 sec rocket barrage from a beggar's bazooka.

 

[Didixo]

-Sees this, thinks its about the MAP itself...
-Make the sniper not vaccinable... why just, why.
-Goomba should be turned off for invisible and invincible but yet have the manntreads sounds for Uber and God
-Something which has a random chance to pop-up (RTD) takes no skill (sherlock holmes) and is abusive... wat.
-Specific insta-kill rolls only for one session, yet the map restarts like never, so only once per lifetime
-Thinks it's easy to mod the game's func_regenerate so it won't recharge the clip of certain weapons... *sigh*
-Wants that we change the stats of the Short Circuit so complex that it doesnt give penalty for clearing explosives
-Wants us to mod the RTD plugin and change the effects of a certain roll...

Boy, that has NOTHING to do with maps. Nothing. Also editing Game Stats and Plugins isn't an easy task, and our guy for that is... lazy. ( Sorry Ron :> )

 

[Hisu]

-Sees this, thinks its about the MAP itself...

It's about how things would work better in my opinion on the given MAP itself. Maps aren't just architecture, you know. ^_^

-Make the sniper not vaccinable... why just, why.

Because it is an invincible combo that breaks sniper duels completely. If you play sniper and you see that against you, you either run away or quit sniping. There is literally nothing to counter it within the same margin of action.

-Something which has a random chance to pop-up (RTD) takes no skill (sherlock holmes) and is abusive... wat.

Yes, mister watson, you CAN abuse random things. All you have to do is spam the command and rtd. Sooner or later an overkill will proc, and, while there's nothing wrong with it in the concept, it happens too often.

-Specific insta-kill rolls only for one session, yet the map restarts like never, so only once per lifetime

One player session. Like, "that can proc only once an hour of that map active and for only one player in each team, and it cannot proc twice for the same player during the same game session".

-Thinks it's easy to mod the game's func_regenerate so it won't recharge the clip of certain weapons... *sigh*

I have no idea if that's easy or not. I only saw it done once or twice before (hence it's definitely doable) and thought it's a good idea.

-Wants that we change the stats of the Short Circuit so complex that it doesnt give penalty for clearing explosives

Again, I have no idea if it's easy or not. Personally, I think the penalty should be removed completely, but what do I know? So I'm suggesting the safe option.

-Wants us to mod the RTD plugin and change the effects of a certain roll...

And only for a certain map. Yes.

 

[Didixo]

It's about how things would work better in my opinion on the given MAP itself. Maps aren't just architecture, you know. ^_^

You still can't change certain plugins just for a certain map, you realize a map is NOT the plugin itself. Before you seem like a smart guy you should inform yourself about the difference between maps AND plugins.

 

[Hisu]

As long as some map is played exclusively on some server, why not?

 

[Ron]

1. Please mod in that snipers couldn't be vaccinated and thus made invincible for other snipers. It's worse than croco set (which I had no problem with as it just forced players to change their tactics, which is universally a good thing) and completely ruins sniper dueling that occur a lot on dm_duel maps.

Says the guy who uses high-brightness models.

2. I would very much like some changes to goomba stomping. First, I suggest turning it off for invisible and invincible. The reason is, as goomba stomping is a sure kill, everyone must be able to anticipate and/or avoid it. Second, I would like goomba stomp instakill to trump ubercharge ('just cause it's fun) AND rtd's godmode effect (to award skill).

No one ever dealt damage via goomba to me when I had RTD Godmode or ubercharge.

3. By the way, I have a few suggestions about how RTD should work on this map. First, there are too many people abusing oneshot rtds like toxic and instakill, just W+M1'ing and spamming the rtd command. There is no skill AND there is no fun in this. Second, what exactly do I propose is to limit both toxic and instakill effects to, say, once a session per player and once an hour globally.

So you are basically saying to nerf a dice for being a good dice?

4. Next, about spamming. I have three ideas. First is to mod in that clips for explosive weapons will not refill upon hitting the refill locker. Second is to remove the -15 metal penalty on Short Circuit for clearing spammables that lay motionless, so it will counter spam while not giving engie an incentive to go w+m1 on soldiers. My third idea is about infinite ammo rtd. I think it will be good to replace infinite clips will quick reload, so there will be no such ridiculous things like an endless 20 sec rocket barrage from a beggar's bazooka.

While I would agree on nerfing on Short Circuit and Inf. Ammo, There is a better anti-spam mechanism, but it is quite buggy to put it yet in the offical server.

 

[Hisu]

Says the guy who uses high-brightness models.

What does this have to do with that? Overbright models are a replicable edge, not at all different from scripts except that it's not as popular. Shield? No problem, you can get one yourself in three clicks. Machina? Same thing. Overbright models? Same thing, just a couple of clicks more. Friendly medic with a vaccinator? Requires jumping through a couple of hoops and still doesn't resolve the situation. Friendly sniper with perfect timing? Much more hoops to jump through.
Basically, snipers should not be vacc'ed because:
a) any viable counter to vaccinated sniper requires considerably more effort.
b) countering by mirroring doesn't work in this particular situation, hence it's inherently imbalanced.

No one ever dealt damage via goomba to me when I had RTD Godmode or ubercharge.

Yep, my point exactly. I think it'll be both more fun and more skill awarding if goomba instakilled even under rtd godmode and ubercharge.

So you are basically saying to nerf a dice for being a good dice?

No, I'm basically saying to nerf some of the dice for being excessively influential, right to the point of gamebreaking even by dm_duel standards. I would have no issue with them on maps like orange_x, but dm_duel is simply too small, too condensed, and those two rtds (toxic and instakill) turn from strong powerups they were developed (and thus intended to be) as into thermonuclear overkill. But I'm not an alien to the idea of fun of overkill so I'm not asking to remove toxic and instakill rtds completely — I'm just suggesting to limit them proportionally to map size.

While I would agree on nerfing on Short Circuit and Inf. Ammo, There is a better anti-spam mechanism, but it is quite buggy to put it yet in the offical server.

Oh. Can you elaborate? Please?

 

[Didixo]

Yep, my point exactly. I think it'll be both more fun and more skill awarding if goomba instakilled even under rtd godmode and ubercharge.

I don't understand you, at first you say that the Goomba stomp shouldn't kill Invisible and Invincible (aka God mode) players, then you want Uber and Godmode (aka Invincible) players to be goomba-stomp-able because it's more rewarding of skill. Then we should leave the Vacc'ed Snipers, because killing them is "skill rewarding". Ya seem like a tryhard to me.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

Not sure why a vaccinated Sniper would be so much more difficult to kill. It only gives 10% resistance without übering, so that's only three seconds more charging time and a headshot will kill him. Unless that 'no crit damage' bug is still active, in which case a headshot would not be possible. In that case I could agree. Otherwise it's hardly different from a Sniper being healed by any other Medi Gun.

@ Ron and Timo, I'm pretty sure he meant that invisible and invincible players should not be able to goomba stomp, rather than not being able to be goomba stomped. I see no reason why an invisible player cannot be stomped (in Hale this is perfectly possible); it would also contradict himself if he first said invincible players should not be stomped, then that they should be able to get stomped. So he probably meant that you need to be visible and not invincible in order to be able to stomp.

I don't disagree with the RTD things, but I don't know if it's worth the effort for some of them. Making the Toxic and Instant Kills effects shorter seems easy though, and I can imagine people wanting this to happen. Toxic could use a nerf to 10 or maybe 15 seconds, as it is really OP the way it is. Instant Kills is a bit less OP so maybe that could be shortened to 15 but shorter than that is not really needed.

Ron answered the spam part. He has a plugin in mind but it is not working yet. The concept is something along the lines of not being able to shoot for 1.5 seconds if the player is resupping for the second time in too short a timespan and his clip was too empty. Ron can explain it better than me though.

And Timo, there is a difference between rewarding skill by allowing godmode'd players to be goomba stomped, and nerfing very hard to kill Snipers. Also who the hell cares how hard he tries? If the suggestions are valid I couldn't care less if he was a drug addict, we have nothing to judge about his life or playstyle if it's irrelevant.

EDIT: forgot the limiting of RTDs part. Once per session would mean a player can simply rejoin to get Toxic again, although they would have to go out of their way. It would be annoying for people who play for two or three hours at a time: they would have to rejoin ro be able to get a good RTD again - and would easily be able to do so. That idea would be annoying and would not really help. I also don't think it's needed, which is why I suggested shortening the best ones.

 

[Hisu]

Unless that 'no crit damage' bug is still active, in which case a headshot would not be possible. In that case I could agree. Otherwise it's hardly different from a Sniper being healed by any other Medi Gun.

Alas, valve considers crit negation a feature, not bug. The only thing they did about it is that now vacc negates crits from the active source rather than any, and bullet protection don't protect from melee crits (though it was patched before, I think).

@ Ron and Timo, I'm pretty sure he meant that invisible and invincible players should not be able to goomba stomp, rather than not being able to be goomba stomped. I see no reason why an invisible player cannot be stomped (in Hale this is perfectly possible); it would also contradict himself if he first said invincible players should not be stomped, then that they should be able to get stomped. So he probably meant that you need to be visible and not invincible in order to be able to stomp.

Yep, precisely!
And I want stomping to work on players under ubercharge and godmode rtd.
(maybe intoduce new rtd that will counter new goomba? "non-combat damage immunity" so players, while not invincible, won't suffer from falling, propelled jumps, etc — and also goomba stomps.)

I don't disagree with the RTD things, but I don't know if it's worth the effort for some of them. Making the Toxic and Instant Kills effects shorter seems easy though, and I can imagine people wanting this to happen. Toxic could use a nerf to 10 or maybe 15 seconds, as it is really OP the way it is. Instant Kills is a bit less OP so maybe that could be shortened to 15 but shorter than that is not really needed.

I thought about nerfing the duration, but it won't work with those who spam the command while w+m1'ing. Who are the sorta nexus for the problem.

Once per session would mean a player can simply rejoin to get Toxic again, although they would have to go out of their way. It would be annoying for people who play for two or three hours at a time: they would have to rejoin ro be able to get a good RTD again - and would easily be able to do so. That idea would be annoying and would not really help. I also don't think it's needed, which is why I suggested shortening the best ones.

Not only that, but they shouldn't be able to get an overkill rtd for at least another hour no matter the rejoin.
Exactly because toxic and instakill are not just good rtds, but overkill rtds (on dm_duel map, because everything is stacked tight there), there's all the more reason to make them rare. Diamond rare. Once per hour per team tops without guarantee, AND never again for the same player during the same game session. This way spamming overkills will be eliminated while, overall, rtd will retain its appeal (maybe with lowered chance for negatives to balance out sudden rareness of overkill positives).