Accepted Permanent Gag Appeal (1 Viewer)

[cooks]

Witty humour is too much for you guys, I understand, as I said, what I meant was that the final judgement should not be in the hands of anyone else other than klay, this should be quite obvious as to why unless that's how you resolve all your appeals assigning the task to someone who's not even relevant to Ice's gag.

Either way I doubt you know what Ice thinks about this situation, your input on whether what I said is rude or not, isn't going to change the course of action, I hope it doesn't at least.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

Witty humour is too much for you guys, I understand, as I said, what I meant was that the final judgement should not be in the hands of anyone else other than klay, this should be quite obvious as to why unless that's how you resolve all your appeals assigning the task to someone who's not even relevant to Ice's gag.

Either way I doubt you know what Ice thinks about this situation, your input on whether what I said is rude or not, isn't going to change the course of action, I hope it doesn't at least.

ALL appeals here are resolved by the admin who did the deed. Literally every single one as far as I know. Hell, the other day someone appealed a ban I did back in early 2014 and nobody moved a muscle until I gave my input. An ex-admin! It's becoming more ironic by the minute that you tell other people to sod off when you don't know how things are done around here.

 

[Lieva]

Witty humour is too much for you guys, I understand, as I said, what I meant was that the final judgement should not be in the hands of anyone else other than klay, this should be quite obvious as to why unless that's how you resolve all your appeals assigning the task to someone who's not even relevant to Ice's gag.

So opinions cant be posted since freedom of speech doesent exist here? And what judgement, I wasnt assigned to this post. Just saw some stuff in Ice's opinions that didnt make much sense to me

 

[cooks]

ALL appeals here are resolved by the admin who did the deed. Literally every single one as far as I know. Hell, the other day someone appealed a ban I did back in early 2014 and nobody moved a muscle until I gave my input. An ex-admin! It's becoming more ironic by the minute that you tell other people to sod off when you don't know how things are done around here.

Whether you decide to take anything I say personally/seriously that's up to you, I didn't really tell anyone to get lost, I literally said that klay should be the one taking care of this.

Does it even matter anymore?

 

[Lieva]

Whether you decide to take anything I say personally/seriously that's up to you, I didn't really tell anyone to get lost, I literally said that klay should be the one taking care of this.

Does it even matter anymore?

Yes, it doesent anymore, I didnt ask you to be here and you didnt me. So whats ur point in the first place from beginning when you wanted klay to give out his opinion about the matter, ofc you dont tell directly to people to fuck off from the thread because the one who banned the individual has only the right to post here but ur pointing it in that direction

 

[cooks]

Yes, it doesent anymore, I didnt ask you to be here and you didnt me. So whats ur point in the first place from beginning when you wanted klay to give out his opinion about the matter, ofc you dont tell directly to people to fuck off from the thread because the one who banned the individual has only the right to post here but ur pointing it in that direction

Don't know why you're still going since everything you or I said has lost it's meaning already.

 

[IceStick]

Yes this is about the gag, gag means you broke the chat rules. Im talking about your current perm gag, not your previous ones, like you just said that they shouldnt have nothing to do with your current gag. But you just brought them up so other people dont do so, so what are you trying to tell me with them?

Since im running out of phone battery

I brought them up to justify them, why do I need to reiterate?

Talking just to clear the water on some things that remained unclear to me

I don't think it matters whether they're clear to you or not, honestly. If klay is confused about something, they can ask.

I know that admins that have no business related to these appeals are supposed to "care" and give their amazing, time-worthy inputs and opinions, but may you not derail my thread in the process of astounding us with your insight? Thank you very much.

 

[Stabbin]

I've read the entire chat-log for the dodgeball #04 server, so that I would get some understanding of the context Ice is speaking in. His attitude towards others is a little toxic, but I've yet to come across obscene language. Ice does not deserve a permanent gag, all serious gags are spaced out over 3 years and this would be his 5th gag. No doubt Ice could improve on his attitude towards others. I think Ice would understand what I mean by that, even if jokingly meant, what you say (to others) can be taken serious by others (i.e. calling people bad, etc.).

I'm for reducing the punishment and changing it's reason.

 

[klay]

Your bad reputation reached me long before I had the chance to meet you ingame and based one what I saw from playing with you seve Iral times on the servers, this reputation is justified. You might as well just say that it's me going with the herd but this public opinion on you is something only you have an influence on. It's my experience that wherever you go, unpleasant things happen. Saying that it's just people taking an offence is a weak argument in my opinion as I really only see it with you and your friends you usually banter with. Even in this thread there are numerous deleted shitposts and has derailed into arguing about something irrelevant, which is not your fault really, but the shit hit the fan because it's you. I'm sorry that this is the opinion I formed on you, but this is what I got from others and you've confirmed it with your behaviour.

Here's what happened on the 3rd of May:
I was working and @Bass messaged me on steam whether to gag you for you behaviour on the servers or not, seeing that you never really improve on your toxic attitude towards others (which I believe is true). I had a look at your chatlog and based on what I saw and my opinion on you I prompted him to give you a gag if he felt like you deserved one. Unfortunately, I was a bit late with my answer and either Bass or you already left the server, so he asked me to invoke the gag for him via SB since he is only a trial admin.
In a moment of hurry as I had work to do, I quickly chose "Obscene language" as the reason as it seemed appropriate to me that time. With hindsight I apologise for the inaccurate reason as it's my fault for lacking proper English knowledge.
As for why it's permanent, I have no knowledge of what went on in the past, but I had to assume that those gags were all justified. Most administrators go for a permanent gag after gags much shorter than 3 months and seeing you already had a 3 months long silence, I went for a permanent one. If you can indeed prove that those gags are unjustified/false, I'm all for shortening your current one, but I would not like to see it lifted.

Btw, what stood out to me in your chatlog was this part:

Spoiler

This was either directed at Bass or pizzaorber (YS), but either way it's soemthing quite bad imo.

Before I take any actions with your punishment, I'd like to hear @Bass' opinion on this as he was there and can provide better proof and put things into context.

 

[IceStick]

Even in this thread there are numerous deleted shitposts and has derailed into arguing about something irrelevant, which is not your fault really, but the shit hit the fan because it's you.

I'd like to thank you for not pinning that on me completely. I was trying to be polite and not turn this into something personal the whole time.

In a moment of hurry as I had work to do, I quickly chose "Obscene language" as the reason as it seemed appropriate to me that time. With hindsight I apologise for the inaccurate reason as it's my fault for lacking proper English knowledge.

That gives me some consolation, so thank you, again. Honesty and transparency are qualities rarely seen here.

but I would not like to see it lifted.

I completely agree with you. My behavior is often out of line, but I took it too far with the line that was directed towards Bass. Even though his replies were rather enabling, I will take full responsibility and admit misconduct on my part.

As for why it's permanent, I have no knowledge of what went on in the past, but I had to assume that those gags were all justified. Most administrators go for a permanent gag after gags much shorter than 3 months and seeing you already had a 3 months long silence, I went for a permanent one. If you can indeed prove that those gags are unjustified/false

I have no idea why it was a silence, I never used my microphone at that time. I guess it was to prevent me from communicating whatsoever.
I never bothered disputing anything less than 24 hours because, as I already stated, I had mostly been done with my session.

As for the other 3 gags, here're their stories one by one:
4th of April, 2015:
An admin had slain me for spinning my mouse (Evo was present at the time) so I had every right to be angered. A player, named .Clic Clic Boom ! accused me of cheating, which further infuriated the admin that issued the gag. I was called a "fucking noob" and reported for racism (I seldom am racist, and I sure as heck was not racist on that particular day.) Then, another user reported me for insulting, which resulted in them getting banned for 30 minutes for call abusing. I can see a trend on that day, there were 3 admins present and only one took action by gagging me for an hour, after slaying me for no apparent reason.

24th of April, 2015:
That one I cannot excuse, I overstepped my boundaries by explicitly "being offensive" I suppose. I was gagged by a supposed friend for this:

Spoiler

25th of June, 2016:
I was ungagged, and it was only a 2 hours gag. Somebody once told me "fuckoff" and "play an game called Racism World". They were looking kind of angry. I was not racist that day, either. I was, however, repeating the letters "es" after every kill I had got.
I can only assume that it was a false gag, since there was another player whose name I will not mention that was triggering the admin by mocking their English and the community in general.

I don't think the first 4 gags on record need justification.
-

Thank you for being considerate.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

4th of April, 2015:
An admin had slain me for spinning my mouse (Evo was present at the time) so I had every right to be angered. A player, named .Clic Clic Boom ! accused me of cheating, which further infuriated the admin that issued the gag. I was called a "fucking noob" and reported for racism (I seldom am racist, and I sure as heck was not racist on that particular day.) Then, another user reported me for insulting, which resulted in them getting banned for 30 minutes for call abusing. I can see a trend on that day, there were 3 admins present and only one took action by gagging me for an hour, after slaying me for no apparent reason.

I partly remember this day, I was the one who slayed you. Back then and now as well you present it as 'spinning your mouse', but you were doing it deliberately to realistically look as if you were spinhacking. I was baffled and would have instantly permed you if I wasn't so stumped by what was happening. I decided to slay you instead and ask you what was going on. I don't remember much of the rest in detail, except that it angered you and you took your concerns to the shoutbox that same day. Both on the server as well as on the forums, you were rude as I recall.

I heard from a reliable source - won't mention the name just in case they wouldn't want me to - that you did tend to use scripts to seem like you were spinhacking, which made a lot of sense to me. One, that was definitely not just 'spinning your mouse', there was some type of script involved there. Two, you were frustrated with kevin and the community as a whole at the time and were not exactly secretive about this, so I figured you probably came to the servers to troll.

I admit that I should have spectated you and waited to see what was going on - although I should mention, even if I had realised it was just a spinning script I would still have taken action as I would consider that griefing, if only mildly. I nevertheless remain of the opinion that if you don't like a community, what you should do is not play on it. You shouldn't deliberately provoke people on the community through scripting and then proceed to spread toxicity when people understandably respond to that, with responses you bait out. While my administrative behaviour was not ideal and I should have considered the situation a moment longer, you were the one who chose to get involved in a community you were at odds with, and any abrasive behaviour you displayed cannot as a whole be blamed on us.

I realise that this post is heavily painting you off as a troll, but as I said due to your extreme tensions with the community at that time I simply cannot imagine that you were there that day with your supposed script purely to have a good time, especially considering your behaviour after I acted upon it.

 

[IceStick]

I heard from a reliable source - won't mention the name just in case they wouldn't want me to - that you did tend to use scripts to seem like you were spinhacking, which made a lot of sense to me.

I do have scripts, but what your so called "reliable source" failed to mention is that most of my scripts are within the game (including the alleged spin script). None of which I was using on that day.

I play with a high sensitivity; 65 currently, and 93 back then, with a DPI of 2.4k currently, and 1.7k previously. You cannot say that my playstyle is griefing, I was waiting for a rocket to come at me, and out of boredom I was spinning my mouse, which is still my playstyle to this very day; I go in circles, jump, use voice comms, and spin my mouse.
This is from the day you decided to slay me for "provoking" you:

Spoiler

Had it been a script, I would've stopped immediately, with no deceleration at all.
To be frank, I see my anger at that instance justified; I was punished for something I wasn't warned about, nor was it on the rules list.
While we're on the subject, why would you slay someone and then ask them to wait? What for, exactly? -

Spoiler

even if I had realised it was just a spinning script I would still have taken action as I would consider that griefing, if only mildly

I'm sorry, come again? So, by using a jump-crouch script that has voice comms incorporated with it, one could consider that griefing because I'm irritating them with my constant use of voice comms? I see this as a subjective thing that anyone could use to justify their actions. I was not griefing.

I nevertheless remain of the opinion that if you don't like a community, what you should do is not play on it. You shouldn't deliberately provoke people on the community through scripting and then proceed to spread toxicity when people understandably respond to that, with responses you bait out.

I acquiesce. The community offers a service, however the use of said service is bound by rules. Breaking them results in consequences, whether it be a full, or partial, block from the service. Nonetheless, the service provider shall not accuse the client of things with no solid proof, and I think it's completely unfair of the service provider to spread misleading information about the blocked client. It is your right to ban me for no reason, but it's morally wrong to include a false reason.
"deliberately provoke people on the community" "if you don't like a community" come on, don't feel special. I act the same way with the same degree on every other community. I had issues on other communities, too. The only difference is that they had a valid reason, and did not resort to false allegations.

I realise that this post is heavily painting you off as a troll, but as I said due to your extreme tensions with the community at that time I simply cannot imagine that you were there that day with your supposed script purely to have a good time, especially considering your behaviour after I acted upon it.

I have been trying my best for the past 24 hours to make this post as fit as possible, keeping my witty remarks to myself and avoiding unnecessary drama. The keyword in the last sentence was "I", so please keep that in mind.
I was neither scripting, cheating, nor hacking that day. You can see my camera moving on my screen as it was on everyone else's. If you can keep a calm nerve after being accused of cheating, punished for something you didn't do, and insulted simultaneously, then kudos to you, you're way calmer than I am. I won't apologize for the way I acted after you took action, and if this were to happen again, I'd react the same exact way I did before.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

This is from the day you decided to slay me for "provoking" you:

Spoiler

Had it been a script, I would've stopped immediately, with no deceleration at all.
To be frank, I see my anger at that instance justified; I was punished for something I wasn't warned about, nor was it on the rules list.
While we're on the subject, why would you slay someone and then ask them to wait? What for, exactly? -

Spoiler

"wait what" is an expression of confusion and has little to do with actual waiting. You leave out in your screenshot that straight afterwards I sais "care to explain?", linking with what I said before about me asking you what's going on.

If I had thought it was an actual spinhack I would have permed you as I said. Due to my confusion as to what you were doing, I decided to slay you. As you should well know, I was an avid respawner as well, so if you'd kept your calm for one second and told me what was up, I would have respawned you at once. I already admitted that I acted too rashly, but you can't blame the fact that you lost your cool straight afterwards fully on me.

I'm sorry, come again? So, by using a jump-crouch script that has voice comms incorporated with it, one could consider that griefing because I'm irritating them with my constant use of voice comms? I see this as a subjective thing that anyone could use to justify their actions. I was not griefing.

I don't see how spamming voice commands that are by default limited by the game gets anywhere close to pretending to spinhack, which until now I thought it was. If you say that that wasn't your intent I can only take your word for that. But that is only a story around the gag, which you didn't get for spinning rapidly; you got it for your attitude.

I acquiesce. The community offers a service, however the use of said service is bound by rules. Breaking them results in consequences, whether it be a full, or partial, block from the service. Nonetheless, the service provider shall not accuse the client of things with no solid proof, and I think it's completely unfair of the service provider to spread misleading information about the blocked client. It is your right to ban me for no reason, but it's morally wrong to include a false reason.

You say it as if I deliberately try to frame you.

I was neither scripting, cheating, nor hacking that day. You can see my camera moving on my screen as it was on everyone else's. If you can keep a calm nerve after being accused of cheating, punished for something you didn't do, and insulted simultaneously, then kudos to you, you're way calmer than I am. I won't apologize for the way I acted after you took action, and if this were to happen again, I'd react the same exact way I did before.

I really don't understand why you find it so weird that when you move in the way you did, people would think that you're cheating. Hell you got me to believe that for a second, and I like to think that I was normally pretty decent at detecting hacks. I had just never seen anyone move in that way casually before. If you find it so awful to be accused of cheating, I don't get why you would still knowingly move that way.

'Punished' is a pretty big word for what could have been 10 seconds of not being alive in the game, if you'd taken that small amount of time to explain yourself to me instead of getting upset.

I don't remember the insults, so I couldn't now say why I wouldn't have acted upon them. The only scenario I can possibly imagine is that there was only 1 insult straight after my slay, at which point I would have been more occupied with you than anything else.

All in all, yes I do think you could very well have stayed calm. People were understandably confused at what you were doing, all I did was slay you and literally ask you to explain, and there could only have been very little window for anyone to insult you. If you have any more of those beautiful logs on you that would show me to be wrong, please do bring them up. But I can really hardly imagine that there was no ambiguity as to your actions and that I wouldn't have acted upon repeated insults.

 

[Wolfgang]

"deliberately provoke people on the community" "if you don't like a community" come on, don't feel special. I act the same way with the same degree on every other community.

Can confirm during your time as head admin on mtx, it's also why I love you.

Jokes aside and I know it's not my place to say, but c'mon you guys. Ice makes an extremely strong point here and the sheer amount of effort and information presented in his appeal is unlike any other. This really looks like an open-and-shut case to me and although I may be a little biased I really, really don't see why you couldn't just give him a chance rather than going back and forth on this. Especially considering the (partial) injustice served in the past.

ps. me and a number of others also do this spin crap and it has never, EVER lead to any complaints, distrust or anything of the sorts.

I strongly believe the length of the gag is way out of order although I can see what got him one (or 3) in the first place.

 

[Bass]

@IceStick I asked @klay to gag you that day, because you were toxic as usual. I checked your chatlogs from previous days and same toxicity there. I played with you for quite some time, so I know how things go with you and your behaviour. As a player I can ignore your chatlogs since I don't take insults or just rude language towards me very seriously, but sorry, as (b)admin I can't. I could give you a chance (by looking at the effort you put into this appeal). But please, I know you might be ironic in most cases, but just try to decrease the amount of toxicity in your messages. I give +1 to you in this appeal.

 

[IceStick]

'Punished' is a pretty big word for what could have been 10 seconds of not being alive in the game, if you'd taken that small amount of time to explain yourself to me instead of getting upset.

Huh, was I not gagged at the time? The screenshot about you slaying me shows 6:22, the gag occurred at 17:13. Moreover, the last message I could find coming from me was at 6:10. I couldn't have argued my way out of it even if I wanted to, since I was unaware of the admin chat feature at that time. I did not insult anyone after that slay, simply because I was gagged.
I have been called a hacker on numerous events, that doesn't change the fact that I have never hacked. That is my playstyle, please don't try to make me the culprit here.

@IceStick I asked @klay to gag you that day, because you were toxic as usual. I checked your chatlogs from previous days and same toxicity there. I played with you for quite some time, so I know how things go with you and your behaviour. As a player I can ignore your chatlogs since I don't take insults or just rude language towards me very seriously, but sorry, as (b)admin I can't. I could give you a chance (by looking at the effort you put into this appeal). But please, I know you might be ironic in most cases, but just try to decrease the amount of toxicity in your messages. I give +1 to you in this appeal.

Thank you. A warning could've done the trick, but I understand.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

Huh, was I not gagged at the time? The screenshot about you slaying me shows 6:22, the gag occurred at 17:13. Moreover, the last message I could find coming from me was at 6:10. I couldn't have argued my way out of it even if I wanted to, since I was unaware of the admin chat feature at that time. I did not insult anyone after that slay, simply because I was gagged.

I have absolutely no idea. If that is true that would be major.

I can't see the time of the slay you mention, someone would have to check how it compared to the time of the gag on sourcebans taking the timezones into account. I don't feel like doing that type of research right now, especially since I essentially just agree with stabbin and wolf.

 

[IceStick]

I have absolutely no idea. If that is true that would be major.

I can't see the time of the slay you mention, someone would have to check how it compared to the time of the gag on sourcebans taking the timezones into account. I don't feel like doing that type of research right now, especially since I essentially just agree with stabbin and wolf.

The gag was only an hour, so the timezone does not make an impact as long as SB doesn't use +/- 30/15 minutes.
I did not know that you were the one to slay me, which is why I saw your "care to explain?" as a question regarding my slay, rather than my spinning, because I thought you had played enough with me to know my playstyle. Had I known better, I would've explained the situation through the admin chat, and that might be the only thing I'd change were this to happen again.

Thank you for your positive attitudes towards my generally somewhat mildly toxic behaviour, @EvoWarrior5 @Stabbin @Wolfgang @cooks

@klay I have made my case, it is up to you. Whatever it be you decide, I appreciate the chance I got here.

 

[klay]

I have shortened the gag to 1 day, effectively ungagging you but keeping a record of this incident. The reason has also been changed to "toxic behaviour". I apologise to anyone to whom this max have caused troubles and thank you @IceStick for being very thorough and understanding.

Closed.