Completed Minor tweaks to Dodgeball rules (1 Viewer)

[TBotV63]

#4 & #19 – Dodgeball:

1. No rocket stealing or attempting to steal rockets. Only blast it when you get the sentry noise, unless you absolutely have to save yourself from dying. This does not include standing still and when it gets close blasting it. Additionally, going over to the enemy side is an own risk you choose to take. If you do not leave your enemy enough space and they have to steal, it’s not their fault; it’s yours. When an enemy gets to your side, keep in mind that this is not forbidden in itself and is something you have to accommodate for. Nukes are exempt from this rule and may be stolen at all times.
2. No blocking; leave space for others. What is defined as blocking includes:
   
   • Getting close to an enemy and blasting the rocket right after they blast.
   • Not giving other players enough space to handle the rocket.
   • Hindering enemies' movement.
3. No orbiting for too long
4. No suiciding when the rocket is locked onto you. This is included in our general "no griefing" rule but is added here to make it absolutely clear.

It is however allowed to wall (statue as a group).

I've highlighted my suggested modifications.

Now for the reasoning:

1. I merely clarified what was already being done in practice here.
   
2. So, the original list was
   • Getting too close to an enemy and blasting the rocket right when they blast.
   • Standing right behind an enemy and blasting the rocket right when they blast.
   • Not giving your teammates or your enemies enough space and getting up close all the time.
   
   I didn't change a whole lot on the first one. I merely removed the "too", as it's subjective and another point to nitpick at. The kind of behavious described is not allowed at any range.
   
   The second one is merely a more specific case of the first in my eyes, so I dropped it.
   
   The third one is just a tad more specific about what enough space is.
   
   The last one is mostly about bodyblocking. As a nice sideeffect it also makes more obvious why airblasting enemies after an update is considered blocking.
3. For the last one I merely reworded it to not assume a player's intent while suiciding but forbid it period. I also removed the "cotinuously", as suiciding once should be enough to prompt a warning. It is griefing after all, and suiciding usually isn't an accident. I don't think it has to be considered continuous to be of relevance.

Then last, I added that walling / statueing as an exception as it's been treated as such in practice, even tho it technically breaks both the stealing and blocking rules.

 

[DeadSworn]

All changes seem good, I'd think it would be best to implement.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

I call bullshit on the nukes.

I never allowed it and I cannot comprehend why anyone would allow nukes to be stolen. If you allow stealing nukes, people are going to run after them and it becomes a shitfest. If I get a nuke locked on to me I don't want the risk of some idiot running into it and blowing me up as well. I want people to move away from me, as they should.

So many people when they see a nuke lose their mind and instantly start running towards it. That is super dumb. When a nuke arrives, everyone should get the fuck out of the way. You cannot run after a nuke and then say "but it would have killed me!". People need to get away from it.

The only way you can legitimately steal a nuke is if it endangers you, just as with any other rocket. But this has to be UNAVOIDABLE. Again, you can't run after it. Maybe there is a broader range of situations in which nukes can be stolen legitimately compared to normal rockets. But when I was admin (or whenever I played Dodgeball as a regular), almost all cases of nukes arriving involved people running after it who could have easily gotten out of its range. I have almost never seen a situation in which a nuke got stolen legitimately.

I have heard before that de facto, quite some admins allow stealing nukes. I never bothered addressing it because I wasn't involved enough. But actually making it allowed de jure? I say fuck that.

 

[TBotV63]

I never allowed it and I cannot comprehend why anyone would allow nukes to be stolen. If you allow stealing nukes, people are going to run after them and it becomes a shitfest. If I get a nuke locked on to me I don't want the risk of some idiot running into it and blowing me up as well. I want people to move away from me, as they should.

Well, here we go: Same reasoning, different approach. Firstly there still are a ton of maps on the rotation right now that do not effectively allow enough space to get away from a nuke. Secondly some people actually enjoy the high-risk shitfest. If I don't want to be blown up I can still just try to distance myself from all the people pressuring with the nuke. In essence the reasoning behind allowing nukes to be stolen is just that:

The only way you can legitimately steal a nuke is if it endangers you

It is assumed here that a nuke is always a threat, regardless of distance due to its huge blast radius. The approach I described is the approach administration is currently taking, so, in my opinion it should be either added into the rules like that for clarification or the handling of nukes should be changed, the latter of which I don't really see happening.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

I almost never get blown up by nukes that are meant for someone else, I never had a problem of avoiding them. I don't see why anyone else with some sense would. Unless the maps that are generally played has changed drastically, I don't know how there could be multiple maps on which size is a problem with nukes. But if there is a map on which it is hard to avoid dying then sure, it will be stolen more; the current ruleset does not preclude that.

I don't see how the higher threat level of the nuke warrants a change in the current rules. The nuke isn't "always a threat", no clue where that comes from. It's only a threat if you're close to the target of the nuke (and even that assumes that the target of the nuke as well as yourself were standing relatively close to the spawn place of the nuke). But if you're even a little distance off it isn't, since you can easily walk away.

The only real reason you provided as to why it should be allowed is "some people enjoy high-risk shitfests". If people want to go nuts when the nuke arrives with a higher risk of dying, then that is the players' choice I guess. In that case the community should be surveyed on that.

 

[TBotV63]

I almost never get blown up by nukes that are meant for someone else

Is there any reason this is in the present tense? I haven't seen you on db in forever.

The only real reason you provided as to why it should be allowed is "some people enjoy high-risk shitfests".

Actually I presented two "real" reasons:

• Some people enjoy pressuring with the nuke
• Reeducating people after this policy has been in use by pretty much all dodgeball admins for so long is going to be really annoying and I do not see any good reason why it should be done.

 

[Cryptic]

• Getting close to an enemy and blasting the rocket right after they blast.

This should be placed under stealing, not blocking. Also, this needs to be clarified 'cause right now it just sounds like "no cqc'ing". Cqc'ing is allowed, if the player isn't stealing in the process. Might I suggest:

"No rocket stealing or attempting to steal rockets. Only blast it when you get the sentry noise, unless you absolutely have to save yourself from dying. Nukes are exempt from this rule and may be stolen at all times.

What is defined as stealing includes:

• Standing still and blasting the rocket when it gets close.
• Running towards the direction of the rocket and blasting it.
• Getting close to an enemy and immediately returning their rocket when it's not yours.

Additionally, going over to the enemy side is an own risk you choose to take. If you do not leave your enemy enough space and they have to steal, it’s not their fault; it’s yours. When an enemy gets to your side, keep in mind that this is not forbidden in itself and is something you have to accommodate for."

 

[TBotV63]

This should be placed under stealing, not blocking. Also, this needs to be clarified 'cause right now it just sounds like "no cqc'ing". Cqc'ing is allowed, if the player isn't stealing in the process. Might I suggest:

"No rocket stealing or attempting to steal rockets. Only blast it when you get the sentry noise, unless you absolutely have to save yourself from dying. Nukes are exempt from this rule and may be stolen at all times.

What is defined as stealing includes:

• 
  
  
  • Standing still and blasting the rocket when it gets close.
  • Running towards the direction of the rocket and blasting it.
  • Getting close to an enemy and immediately returning their rocket when it's not yours.

Additionally, going over to the enemy side is an own risk you choose to take. If you do not leave your enemy enough space and they have to steal, it’s not their fault; it’s yours. When an enemy gets to your side, keep in mind that this is not forbidden in itself and is something you have to accommodate for."

I'd rather list the exceptions to stealing than what stealing includes.

No rocket stealing or attempting to do so. Only airblast the rocket after hearing the sentry noise. Stealing is allowed only in the following cases:

• The rocket is about to hit you and you had no way of avoiding it
• You are allowed to steal nukes (maybe? tbd)

Additionally, going over to the enemy side is an own risk you choose to take. If you do not leave your enemy enough space and they have to steal, it’s not their fault; it’s yours. When an enemy gets to your side, keep in mind that this is not forbidden in itself and is something you have to accommodate for.

As for moving the "standing close to someone and immediately airblasting":

Listing this separately under stealing makes no sense as it's by definition included in stealing. It's typically grouped with blocking as all the techniques described by blocking in some way are meant to reduce the enemy's ability to react to incoming rockets, whereas the intent behind stealing is not necessarily that.

It does sound a bit like no cqc'ing because blocking is a form of cqc. However I like the definition you provided.

 

[Madact]

Are there any objections to the rules proposed?
Are there any changes that need to be put in to the rules stated in the first post?

Someone please give me a clean copy and paste method to just put into the rules thread. Thank you.
And please, no god damn paragraphs.

 

[TBotV63]

So, how about this:

Dodgeball:

1. No stealing or attempting to steal / intercept rockets.
   
   Only attempt to airblast the rocket after hearing the sentry activation noise, unless you absolutely have to save yourself from dying. This does not include standing still and airblasting when the rocket comes close or moving toward the rocket and then airblasting.
   
   Examples of Stealing:
   • Going after and attempting to airblast every rocket even without having heard the sentry alert.
   • Reflecting the rocket in spite of being able to avoid it.
   • Positioning yourself badly and then repeatedly stealing the rocket when it comes toward you instead of moving.
   
   Exceptions to this rule are:
   • It is allowed to "wall" (statue as a group).
   • It is allowed to protect AFK teammates or teammates otherwise limited in their ability to play due to RTD or similar cause.
   • Nukes are exempt from this rule and may be stolen at all times.
   
   Additionally, going over to the enemy's side ("crossing") is a risk you choose to take. If you do not leave enough space for your enemy and they are forced to steal, it’s not their fault; it’s yours. When an enemy corsses to your side, keep in mind that this is not forbidden in itself and is something you have to accommodate for.
   
2. No blocking; leave space for others. What is considered as blocking includes:
   • Getting close to an enemy and immediately returning their rocket when it's not yours.
   • Not giving other players enough space to handle the rocket.
   • Hindering enemies' movement.
   
   It is allowed to bodyblock players who can't airblast the rocket and have been orbiting for too long. Examples of this include players who rolled "Stripped to Melee" in RTD and had their weapon removed.
   
3. No orbiting for too long
   
   It is generally not allowed to delay for longer than a few seconds. An exception to this is getting into position for a circle or similar at the end of a round within reasonable time.
   
4. No teamkilling
   This is included in our general "no griefing" rule but is added here to make it absolutely clear.
   
   Examples of teamkilling:
   • Suiciding when the rocket is locked onto you, causing it to change targets without notice.
   • Intentionally causing your rocket to hit your teammates instead of you. This includes orbiting the rocket into them and positioning yourself behind teammates in a way that puts them at risk of death caused by your rocket.

---

I modified my original suggestion to include more examples and I changed the wording of a few things. I also took cues from @Squall's suggestion here. If there aren't any objections I'd like to suggest this version for inclusion.

 

[Madact]

https://www.panda-community.com/threads/gameserver-rules-09-07-2016.3409/#post-18661

Here you go edited in.

As for server displayed rules, we shall talk about that in another thread
I'll leave the thread open for a couple of days just incase I missed or messed something up.