Declined [JB] Proposed Changes to Cell Wars / Line Wars Rules (2 Viewers)

[gok-ew]

This thread is piggybacking off of the completed thread by Pistol.
After viewing the thread, specifically the rules regarding Cell Wars, I noticed that Cell Wars cannot be done as an LR, but this seems rather strange.
LR's designed for intentionally ephemeral, FF based rounds, (e.g. Meatgrinder, "FF on, killing isn't kos", etc.) are all perfectly valid LR's, so I do not understand why Cell wars (and Line Wars by proxy) are excluded from this roster.
Being a valid custom LR could allow for more interesting combinations, that if anything at all adds more options in FF based LR's. I've also noticed that whenever someone requests Cell Wars or Line Wars as an LR, rounds can be wasted as many don't actually know if Cell Wars or Line Wars is actually prohibited by the rules, allowing Cell Wars may ameliorate this issue. Finally, the main issue people have with Cell Wars and Line Wars is that it's entirely dependent on the Warden's whim, forcing people playing classes that are otherwise useless with FF (e.g. spy) to switch or be killed. Giving attentive players time to change and prepare before a round starts can allow for a more fair feeling beyond the random "springing" up that Cell Wars tends to have.

TLR, I believe that Cell Wars and Line Wars should become valid custom LR's

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

Doesn't the current ruleset prohibit line wars in any way, shape, or form, or am I crazy? Cause I remember that being the case.

 

[Mehgend]

This was suggested about a year ago now.

Declined Thread '[JB] Allow Cell Wars as an LR'

Dec 16, 2024

As it currently stand the rule is as follows:
"Cell Wars cannot be played as an LR."
Which I think is a little weird as I cannot think of a good reason as to why cell wars wouldn't be allowed as a LR. Which is why I propose we change the rule for cell wars to be allowed as an LR even with 3+ blus.

• Sunsob
• Replies: 21
• Forum: Archive

The negatives towards allowing cell wars as an LR are just that it's not very fun and doesnt necessarily lead to shorter rounds like meatgrinder does.
Sure both meatgrinder and cell wars mean that people aren't really playing the game much, but at least meatgrinder leads to a round that gurantees one person gets LR in only a few minutes. Theres no gurantee that the people who didn't even get to play the game wont have to wait 10 minutes to play the game when cell wars is involved.


No idea why anyone would want line wars tbh. It was not exactly easy to enforce since there isn't really a consistent way to enforce staying on the line. At least with ff on killing is kos you have a kill feed to track kos people on.
Just play that instead. Most of the time is leads to being essentially linewars anyway.

 

[Kron]

On the contrary, I think cell wars should be allowed as an LR and here's my primary reasons why:

1. It thins out the players which will lead to shorter rounds in general.

2. We allow Meatgrinder (Warden can stop at any amount of reds they want, same as CW) Hunger Games (Which can take longer than most minigames) and HnS with FF, I don't see why if those are allowed why this can't be.


While I do believe that Line Wars is too far due to the problems Blue will have enforcing who is/is not on the line there is zero reason in my mind why CW should fall under the same category. If we're making the argument that CW won't necessarily have shorter rounds than there should be a lot more arguments on the games mentioned above (Hunger Games, HnS+FF, and any sort of FF related round), as well as calls for their removal.

To me it feels like we're scared of change, and I said the exact same thing some time ago when there was a suggestion to make non-looping taunts AFK a few months ago- and like I'm about to say on the current suggestion.

 

[TRGGB2]

1. It thins out the players which will lead to shorter rounds in general.

Any other minigame does that better and is a lot more fun than just cell wars. Line wars is just basically HG but with a small restricted area.

2. We allow Meatgrinder (Warden can stop at any amount of reds they want, same as CW)

Meatgrinder allows the REDs opportunity to rebel if needed. Even if the meatgrinder spot is very close by, you still have a chance to make plays as RED. Cell wars does not if your cell does not have a breakable leading to an escape (Even with a breakable, it is in one defined area and easily watched).

...Hunger Games (Which can take longer than most minigames)

If we're making the argument that CW won't necessarily have shorter rounds than there should be a lot more arguments on the games mentioned above (Hunger Games, HnS+FF, and any sort of FF related round), as well as calls for their removal.

Why is that necessarily a bad thing? Whats wrong with longer rounds? Should I argue that Warday should be removed because it doesn't encourage short rounds from reds trying to hide? We had people arguing before about shorter rounds and now we have people arguing about longer rounds.

Being a valid custom LR could allow for more interesting combinations, that if anything at all adds more options in FF based LR's.

What interesting combinations is there for cell wars? I don't understand how you can make cell wars "more interesting".

I've also noticed that whenever someone requests Cell Wars or Line Wars as an LR, rounds can be wasted as many don't actually know if Cell Wars or Line Wars is actually prohibited by the rules, allowing Cell Wars may ameliorate this issue.

Just tell them its isn't allowed next time and it will never happen again? It shouldn't be allowed just because someone doesn't know its forbidden.

Giving attentive players time to change and prepare before a round starts can allow for a more fair feeling beyond the random "springing" up that Cell Wars tends to have.

You are gonna force everyone to switch to Medic or Soldier because that is the HG standard and any other class is not worth using.

 

[Kron]

Why is that necessarily a bad thing? Whats wrong with longer rounds? Should I argue that Warday should be removed because it doesn't encourage short rounds from reds trying to hide? We had people arguing before about shorter rounds and now we have people arguing about longer rounds.

I should have quoted- it isn't a bad thing and I'm not arguing that it is, nor do I want Line Wars. My comment was in response to the quote from Mehgend below.

The negatives towards allowing cell wars as an LR are just that it's not very fun and doesnt necessarily lead to shorter rounds like meatgrinder does.
Sure both meatgrinder and cell wars mean that people aren't really playing the game much, but at least meatgrinder leads to a round that gurantees one person gets LR in only a few minutes. Theres no gurantee that the people who didn't even get to play the game wont have to wait 10 minutes to play the game when cell wars is involved.

Back to my responses though:

Any other minigame does that better and is a lot more fun than just cell wars. Line wars is just basically HG but with a small restricted area.

I fundamentally disagree that minigames should be restricted from LRs because they aren't "as fun" as another- we have a variety of LR options for all sorts of player preference.

Meatgrinder allows the REDs opportunity to rebel if needed. Even if the meatgrinder spot is very close by, you still have a chance to make plays as RED. Cell wars does not if your cell does not have a breakable leading to an escape (Even with a breakable, it is in one defined area and easily watched).

This is true, meatgrinder allows reds the opportunity to rebel even if it is incredibly small. In my opinion though watching over a breakable is as easy as watching over the cells for any amount of blues- there are only so much options for reds to come out of, not to mention if the server has five or more blues. Meatgrinder on high pop has next to no counterplay for reds much like cell wars.

 

[Steve]

Am i reading the suggestion wrong or, The suggestion is "to allow cells when specified as part of the lr, otherwise no cell wars during LR rounds (as per rules)"

 

[gok-ew]

Am i reading the suggestion wrong or, The suggestion is "to allow cells when specified as part of the lr, otherwise no cell wars during LR rounds (as per rules)"

Yes, obviously cell wars can be done at any time with 3 or less Blus, but this suggestion would allow for cellwars to be done as an LR no matter the amount of Blus

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Yeah it's something we've talked about before.

There really isn't any reason Cell Wars should be banned as an LR.
You can say you like it or dislike it, but pragmatically there's no reason for it to be banned when we have meatgrinder as LR option.
'People have a chance to rebel for meatgrinder' ;Meatgrinder in 'X' Cell moment.
For me it's always been both should be allowed or neither should be, and I am on the both side.

People just don't like Cell Wars.
It being banned as an LR was something sneaked into the rules a while ago, that just never made sense.
Granted an LR option being banned/removed due for being unpopular isn't new, so I guess it's just how it is.

Yes from me, but the vote will end in a no guaranteed.

 

[Mehgend]

Declining due to poll results (All yes options do not meet the required number of votes to consider)