Declined [JB] It Is Time, I Want Miami Gone (1 Viewer)

[PistolPoppinSince02]

First and foremost, 'We have worse maps' is whataboutism and a terrible argument to keep the map. We are talking about Miami, not any other map. If you believe other maps are worse (which I agree with), make a suggestion for the community to vote on. Those are those maps, this is this map.

Now it is time for the numbers to speak for themselves;
Data was collected from whenever a map began between 11a.m CST and 11p.m CST (12p.m to a.m in EST) as to gauge populated times of play.
Below shows the 10 most recent times (within the timeframe) MlCastle and Miami were played, the time played, and the player count change into the next map according to Maunz.

What is this graph depicting?

This the playtime for the ten most recent times Miami and MLCastle were played. The blue line is ML and the red is Miami. Average playtime (not shown) is 48.7 minutes for MLCastle and 38.8 minutes for Miami.​

What does this graph show?

Play time shows a good picture of how well a map holds the player base. In a sense it can be seen as player retention.​

Why does the graph matter?

This graph shows a significant difference in playtime and or player retention. Miami was played in full seven of the ten most recent times, while ML was played in full seven times, and extended twice.​

Miami has three short play sessions (denoting an rtv), while MLCastle has one. This in numbers shows the player base's distain for playing on Miami, as I argued in the initial post.​

​

What is this graph depicting?

This graph is showing the player count change upon a next map. Positive numbers means the player count went up into the next map, negative a decrease, and no bar a zero sum. The blue line is ML and the red is Miami. MlCastle has five positive outcomes, two negative outcomes, and 3 neutral outcomes. Miami has two positive outcomes, seven negative outcomes, and one neutral outcome. The average change in player count (not shown) is +2.8 for ML and -4.4 for Miami.​

What does this graph show?

This graph shows what the map does to the play count of the server. Does it grow the server's population into the next map or does it diminish it?​

Why does this graph matter?

This map proves concretely that Miami does harm the server. With two positive impacts and seven negative impacts, Miami is statistically shown to be a harmful force for the player count. People come and go with Jailbreak, so a map ought to be somewhere close to an even distribution towards positive and negative. MlCastle is an exception in the other capacity. When Miami is chosen, people leaving is the expected outcome and I believe that is indicative of a problematic map.​

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

 

[Mehgend]

Who cares

 

[AC Seaweed]

First and foremost, 'We have worse maps' is whataboutism and a terrible argument to keep the map. We are talking about Miami, not any other map. If you believe other maps are worse (which I agree with), make a suggestion for the community to vote on. Those are those maps, this is this map.

Now it is time for the numbers to speak for themselves;
Data was collected from whenever a map began between 11a.m CST and 11p.m CST (12p.m to a.m in EST) as to gauge populated times of play.
Below shows the 10 most recent times (within the timeframe) MlCastle and Miami were played, the time played, and the player count change into the next map according to Maunz.

View attachment 37145
What is this graph depicting?

This the playtime for the ten most recent times Miami and MLCastle were played. The blue line is ML and the red is Miami. Average playtime (not shown) is 48.7 minutes for MLCastle and 38.8 minutes for Miami.​

What does this graph show?

Play time shows a good picture of how well a map holds the player base. In a sense it can be seen as player retention.​

Why does the graph matter?

This graph shows a significant difference in playtime and or player retention. Miami was played in full seven of the ten most recent times, while ML was played in full seven times, and extended twice.​

Miami has three short play sessions (denoting an rtv), while MLCastle has one. This in numbers shows the player base's distain for playing on Miami, as I argued in the initial post.​

​

View attachment 37146​

What is this graph depicting?

This graph is showing the player count change upon a next map. Positive numbers means the player count went up into the next map, negative a decrease, and no bar a zero sum. The blue line is ML and the red is Miami. MlCastle has five positive outcomes, two negative outcomes, and 3 neutral outcomes. Miami has two positive outcomes, seven negative outcomes, and one neutral outcome. The average change in player count (not shown) is +2.8 for ML and -4.4 for Miami.​

What does this graph show?

This graph shows what the map does to the play count of the server. Does it grow the server's population into the next map or does it diminish it?​

Why does this graph matter?

This map proves concretely that Miami does harm the server. With two positive impacts and seven negative impacts, Miami is statistically shown to be a harmful force for the player count. People come and go with Jailbreak, so a map ought to be somewhere close to an even distribution towards positive and negative. MlCastle is an exception in the other capacity. When Miami is chosen, people leaving is the expected outcome and I believe that is indicative of a problematic map.​

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

i would recommend overlaying other maps that are consistently average like carcerem or smth else because you are comparing it to mlcastle after all.
Also, most of the people who lesve leave right at the start, so for it to have a positive impact, that means that more people joined than leave, which is generally ~10 joining on average

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

i would recommend overlaying other maps that are consistently average like carcerem or smth else because you are comparing it to mlcastle after all.
Also, most of the people who lesve leave right at the start, so for it to have a positive impact, that means that more people joined than leave, which is generally ~10 joining on average

MlCastle was chosen as a comparison to show what a positive map looks like, highlighting Miami's statistically negative nature.
Miami's data on its own does little to form any conclusions, but showing it alongside a positive map establishes a causal link.
This of course can be done with many other maps, but the point being that as stated above, most maps should have a somewhat even distribution between positive and negative outcomes.
A graph such as this for Xmf or even Crossroads would most likely tell a similar story, but this is for Miami, other maps can have their own removal suggestions.

And yes, most people leave at the start of the map. An initial count is taken by Maunz at the start of each map. So for a map to be positive, more people have to join than leave. Miami being overwhelmingly negative shows that it causes more people to leave than join while it is played, and consistently at that.

 

[BritishMafia]

GRAPHS? It's getting serious now...

 

[Poacher]

To be brutally honest with you, IMO there is a lot of flaws with the graph which only serves to paint the map in the light you want it painted in while also claiming its unbiased numbers

1. You gave a very general time frame from 11AM-11PM for when you collected this data without an actual date or even the specific times when said maps were played on, which is important since player counts will obviously rise and decrease depending on the time of day (there's obviously gonna be more people playing and joining at like 3-5PM on a Saturday than say 1PM on a Wednesday)(I haven’t played on the server in a while so these numbers might be wrong but you can probably get the point)
2. Why are you using MLcastle as your comparison, MLcastle is one of if not the most played map on the server, nowhere near average and even most of the people who don’t want Miami removed will admit that Miami is not better than MLcastle (I was writing this as AC wrote his comment which ya it’d be better to compare it to more average playtime maps like Carcerem or Bricker)
3. Why are base player counts not included, by the way you described your way of collecting this data via “player count change into the next map” and “This graph is showing the player count change upon a next map”, why wouldn’t you include the base number of players before and after the map change (ex 21 players at the beginning of the map, 25 players at the beginning of the next map) since if the server is populated/full this number might not change and lead to the average change in player count number you have being skewed as a result since those 3 zeroes for MLcastle are unjustly reducing its average since its keeping people which in turn causes it to not lose any or gain any (though this is more indicative of the style of collecting data being flawed but it would still at least be able to show why it is 0) (the server being full before and after a map is what I believe is the reason for MLcastles graphs being neutral for graphs 3, 4, and 6 for player counts but I could be wrong and its just a guess)
4. Lastly and IMO the biggest Flaw is how small the sample size is, 10 rounds on the maps is simply not enough to get a good idea of the things you mentioned, which I have my experiences of collecting data to know of this, I’ll give a TL;DR but basically when I was collecting data for another gamemode I play on (what gamemode it is isn’t important) one of the data points I was collecting was the melee pyros used (for context powerjack is currently easily the best and most overused weapon with basically all pyros running it) and in my first 10 rounds of collecting data, I had 1 pyro constantly using the stock fire axe every round for 8 of those, and the data basically looked like 15 PJ, 8 Stocks, and 1 of everything else, and while yes this data isn’t useless or bad, it shows how using a small sample size can lead to extremes being highlighted and skewing data, which you can see even in this graph with MLcastle having been extended with 78 minutes of playtime, and the next map being immediately rtved after less than 5 minutes, especially since you can see in graphs 4, 5, 6, 7, and 9 in playtime that both maps have very similar average times between each other outside of normal fluctuations, also due to the fact maps can be RTV or extended having so little data doesn’t give an idea of how often either maps are RTV or extended (since from my own experience I don’t see people RTV MLcastle), If you want to collect data like this you would have to do IMO 50-1500 rounds on the maps so oddities that were seen here are more averaged out and the amount of times a map is RTV/extended can be more clearly seen

MlCastle was chosen as a comparison to show what a positive map looks like, highlighting Miami's statistically negative nature.
Miami's data on its own does little to form any conclusions, but showing it alongside a positive map establishes a causal link.

The problem is that your comparing data not from the average but from one of the most played maps on the server which most maps don’t compare to, which in turn makes it look like Miami has a much smaller average playtime on the server than it might, like It was stated it would be better to include some other lesser played maps, cause would it be fair if we compared the average speed a pitcher can throw a fastball and we compared a High School pitcher VS a MLB Pitcher and said that since the MLB Pitcher threw the ball faster, the High School pitcher sucks

TBH I don’t actually care what happens to Miami I was just bored so I wrote is

 

[TheyCallMe_Pin]

As much as I agree with some points made here and admit that Miami is a flawed map, I don't believe it's bad enough to warrant a removal. I specially disagree due to the fact there are worse, duller maps in rotation. Miami in particularly feels refreshing to play because it has its own spins on common mini-games alongside unique ones.

I personally think that "Miami is a server killer" is also not accurate, people have stayed and in fact "revived" the server several times when voting Miami from my experience. Claiming it to be an objective fact is dismissive of the actual problems of the map, and shouldn't be brought up unless there's data to back it up. I think it's easy to say this to any map that's not commonly played, the server won't be active 24/7 and people have their preferences

 

[BritishMafia]

I personally think that "Miami is a server killer" is also not accurate, people have stayed and in fact "revived" the server several times when voting Miami from my experience. Claiming it to be an objective fact is dismissive of the actual problems of the map, and shouldn't be brought up unless there's data to back it up.

Scroll up...

 

[PENZTRIKA]

with a poll this close, i don't think it's getting removed

 

[Alexander Knyght]

While my response won't matter much in the grand scheme of things seeing as how far we've voted. I'd be reminisce if I didn't allow myself to throw my two cents in.

The map has quite a few things going for it. The Aesthetics are sublime, it feels how you'd think Miami would be in the 80's, its textures are amazing and its definitely one of the top five visually appealing maps we have in rotation. You can see the care and dedication that was put into the map, as well as the research. The music is period appropriate; the guns are appropriate. The minigames play fair and are extremely fun. The map is chock full of little things you can do that keeps it engaging.

However, as some people have pointed out, it's a bit unfair or unbalanced. We've all read the opinions but I'm going to add onto it anyway for the sake of brevity. Yes, the money system while unique does kind of support unfair playstyles. Both red and blue will hog their hard-earned dollars sometimes even pooling it to the best person on their team if it means they have a better success rate at rebelling/winning. If the money system was implemented in a more different but fair way I'd think we wouldn't be having this conversation, but alternatives seem unpractical. I've also noticed that blues usually don't spend their money on upgrades they have available compared to reds because of how unbalanced the amount of losing your money is upon death. Some spend a few rounds saving up for the bank upgrade so it's less punishing but even then, I hardly see them buying anything compared to the reds. (Myself included I'm never able to buy any upgrades at armory, and I consider myself a decent blue, if below average despite what people say.) Prices are also insanely expensive but that's what makes the guns fun. It's supposed to be challenging to get an upgrade.

It's extremely easy for reds to rebel. Blue on this map can be very hit or miss depending on each person and that's coming from a chronic blue player. Unless they have a competent warden, chances are blues won't notice reds escaping unless they're pointed out. Now is that a map problem, no it's not it's clearly a blue issue but I think it doesn't help either the amount of foliage there is on this map including how easy it can be to get away/blue and red team composition. Not to mention the cheap taxi right in front of cells. Reds on Miami tend to go for Scout while blues tend to go Soldier. It's just something I've noticed while playing. I don't want to hate on players who aren't skilled enough to traverse the map or deal with the problems it gives. And saying, "well just get good", "it's not our fault their bad" isn't a very good model for success for them.

Adding onto some outside factors (Targeting being the biggest issue) I don't blame people for saying the map isn't fun whether it's their fault, the maps' fault, the additions, the layout, their skillset whatever. All maps have their issues, their opinions on why they should stay or go. (Casuarina, Under Jail, Crossroads). Some people say it's a server killer, others say it's the bees' knees. At the end of the day, it's the community that makes the map what it is. And I quite enjoy looking at what people have to say on suggestions (unless it's an obvious joke answer, in which case I hate you). I'm voting yes on the removal because like some have pointed out, we DID remove Galaxy until it gets fixed. It would be unfair to have one map be removed and not the other just because it plays bad or it's broken or it's unfair or what have you. And it does have some problems like people have pointed out that I would like to see resolved, with the map out of rotation to prevent further ire or stress. I don't think anyone wants to have a map their trying to fix be in rotation while the community actively shits on its flaws over and over despite reassurances.

Adieu.

(P.S. Creature)

 

[KyePerson]

 

[Expired]

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

Hi,

Some of the issues pertaining to the map can be changed via the stripper:source plugin

I can change

• Money on kill
• could remove the money system entirely (I do not want to do this as this removes the soul of the map imo)
• The yacht's loud boat horn
• money persistence (eg. resetting money after x rounds or something)
• disabling/adding limits to the !givemoney command since it allows reds to easily give away their life savings so that one guy can afford the button that kills everyone else or something
• removing/reducing the amount of money you can gain just by wandering around the map and breaking the breakable stations
• Basically 90% of things relating to the money system can be changed since it's all vscript

I cannot change

• Layout issues (the most that can be done is blocking areas off with props)
• Prices (uni used textures for pricetags which is annoying to change and would require downloading of additional files lest you want to deal with inaccurate prices)
• Adding the entirety of jb_aztec to the map (two pieces of coal doesn't make a diamond, also impossible lol)

If there are any other possible changes you have cooked up in your surprisingly full head, let me know and I can take a look at to see if it's possible.

 

[shmeed]

Voting no not because I like this map (I can't fucking stand this map) but because I just don't think removing maps on the grounds of "it kills the server" is a very good reason. Most of the points made about the maps boil down to "rounds last long and then the server dies" and yeah that sucks but a large majority of the time the map isn't the reason at fault for the server dying. If the server is gonna die it's gonna die regardless of a map being played. Any map can kill a server, and I think the only real reason a map should be removed is if it isn't played much at all can be replaced by a similar map (quake redux) or if it is fundamentally not balanced (galaxy).

TLDR; I don't like Miami but it probably shouldn't be removed since saying rounds last long doesn't mean much since any map can have long rounds

 

[Unicake]

image

 

[Dexter Morgan]

Main issue with Miami is that its very complex compared to many other maps, which may leave other people confusing, its gigantic size upscales many other maps, such as volcano, and other maps.

Its money system isn't too bad and fairly decent but does come with cons and pros. For example the money system can be abused by anyone (including blues and freedays). but overall Miami is a great map in texture and further might be one of best maps in detail, but however it may causes many issues for a diverse range of other players.

Miami would be a better map if the creator reworks or updates the map to avoid all of these cons. Overall Miami may be controversial in the community, but i'd assume it should stay.

 

[Madact]

Declined due to community vote