Declined [JB] Ban cell wars…completely (or at least restrict it further) (1 Viewer)

[Eagle_attack]

No, but frick the wardens who spam cellwars, maybe put a limit of how many rounds of CW you can do, would be better

Edit: Putting a limit will be too confusing, nobodys going to track that.

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

As someone who despises cellwars and hasn't played it as warden since 2017 I never thought I would be this split on my vote.

I don't think either of the presented options are the right way to go (for now) for reasons that have been parroted by many people here already. Though if a good alternative solution for guards getting overwhelmed comes up that allows everyone to still play the game, I would gladly ban this "game" in a heartbeat.

 

[TiPhoenix]

While I’m aware I’m posting this concurrently to an ongoing Cell Wars suggestion, as it is I’m confident that one isn’t going to pass, so I feel confident in posting this one.

What’s this cell wars suggestion? Simple: ban it…completely.

The overwhelming majority of seem to agree that Cell Wars isn’t very fun, because it basically denies more than half the RED team the ability to participate in the round. As is, Cell Wars can only be done with 3 or less BLUs. But honestly, I have seen successful rounds be pulled off with 3 or less BLUs up against a ton of REDs. On the flip side, I’ve also seen plenty of quick failrounds with 4 or more BLUs. If you spend enough time on Panda Jailbreak you’ll see that it’s how good each individual BLU is at their job that increases the chances of a round being successful, not the number. Quality over quantity.

I’d also rather have a bunch of failrounds where I can still participate in the round as a RED than have to potentially wait up to nine minutes in spectator for a new round to begin.

However, as a second option, I have also added the option to restrict Cell Wars to if there is just 1 BLU (who will inevitably be the warden) as a compromise, as scenarios with only one BLU are rather rare and a little more understandable to do Cell Wars then seeing as they have nobody to help them.

I agree with quality over quantity when it comes to BLUs. But, Cell Wars has always been a choice of the warden. I know of times I've done cell wars, and the next round I didn't. I get it, being stuck in spec fucking sucks. But so does being one of the only semi-competant BLUs on a team of people who have the collective situational awareness of Jose.Gonzales.2009 over there...

The rules of Cell Wars on Panda have always set the server apart from others too, and fucking with that identity by restricting it more or banning it isnt the play. Besides, if the BLUs are good at their job, a round is likely to go quick. If not, failround via rebellers is gonna be a quick round ender too (The main hold ups are delayers and afk people, which I know people can ghost the latter to expedite the round).

Regardless, when in doubt, if you have to sit in spec for 9 minutes, nothing and nobody says you cant go stare at memes or do other shit for like 2 minutes before checking back on the server.

TLDR: Limiting Cell Wars further is a non issue in my opinion, so I vote no change.

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

As someone who despises cellwars and hasn't played it as warden since 2017 I never thought I would be this split on my vote.

I don't think either of the presented options are the right way to go (for now) for reasons that have been parroted by many people here already. Though if a good alternative solution for guards getting overwhelmed comes up that allows everyone to still play the game, I would gladly ban this "game" in a heartbeat.

Perhaps a plugin of sorts to give the warden more health or more resistance?

It’s unfortunately insanely hard to come up with a suggestion that everyone agrees is fair to both teams without making one overpowered. If you suggest something to help out the RED team like this suggestion, you’ll get “No! BLU team needs it to control the REDs and not be overwhelmed!” But I guarantee you if I or someone else suggested my above plugin idea, it’d be “No! That’ll make BLUs too overpowered! It’ll make it to too hard to rebel!”

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

Perhaps a plugin of sorts to give the warden more health or more resistance?

Something like that, though probably not a health/resistance increase, since that doesn't fix guards getting overwhelmed, it just delays their deaths by a few seconds.

 

[TiPhoenix]

Genuine question how frequently would you say cell wars is played, I have put in 2+ hour sessions every single day for the past month and RARELY if EVER seen it done.

Cause as I said earlier cell wars is a choice of the warden... I usually only use it when I get annoyed at the bullshit of the fucking reds. Cell wars is so rarely fucking done.

 

[TiPhoenix]

Perhaps a plugin of sorts to give the warden more health or more resistance?

It’s unfortunately insanely hard to come up with a suggestion that everyone agrees is fair to both teams without making one overpowered. If you suggest something to help out the RED team like this suggestion, you’ll get “No! BLU team needs it to control the REDs and not be overwhelmed!” But I guarantee you if I or someone else suggested my above plugin idea, it’d be “No! That’ll make BLUs too overpowered! It’ll make it to too hard to rebel!”

Fuck it, remove random crits (for everyone), and give blu minicrits from warden. Cause a good 6/10 times the kill on the warden is a random crit the other 4/10 is either a backstab, multiple melee hits, or a gun.

(I am mostly kidding, but this could provide an interesting experiment regardless.)

 

[CutePyro0]

I dont really like cellwars cuz unless you're a demoknight, soldier or heavy you're most likely to just die while it does help, i seen 2 or 3 blus able to manage a round without cellwars just fine,

engineers can and have won cell wars
@pretty fly for a fly guy is a prime example

 

[CutePyro0]

I don't think outright banning cellwars fixes the issue cellwars has and why people don't like it
restricting it to 1 guard is a better option yes but also has a fatal flaw if the reds who lived are those who don't like cell wars or don't like the particular warden because they spam it then the warden will just be swarmed and killed.

don't know how it's best to fix this issue however i have voted to have it restricted to 1 guard due to 1 thing blues say commonly

"great we are at 3 guards lets spam cell wars"

 

[Mehgend]

What are we doing man

 

[Sunsob]

If we ban cell wars I can't threaten the reds with it to get more people to join the blu team

 

[Musisphaera]

Alright, finally found time to respond to this suggestion. I would like to apologize in advance if I may sound harsher than usual.
And I'm ready for dumbreacts, disagree's, everything. God forbid I share my opinion.

Spoiler: Long detailed message

I agree and understand that if you want a succesful round and if you are understaffed, that cell wars is a good tool to limit the reds and tone the amount down. Say yer 2 to 28 as Silly said, understandable.
Constantly having failrounds with rebelling reds is not fun for blue's (and for some reds) and I can understand that. Truly, I can understand as I've been killed many times due to this.

However, after playing for a while and seeing the different sort of matches, dare I say that it mostly relies on which skillset the warden/guards play.
Think about it: is it because the reds are good at rebelling or is it because the blue's don't know how to deal with reds/rebellers, even with crits?
It sadly enough relies on the latter in my opinion. You can be the best rebeller in town or have a group of strong communicating rebellers. But if the blue's are stationed at good positions or know how to deal with reds, then even the best of rebellers and groups of rebellers can have issues.

can't improve without mistakes and challenges

Learn from the positioning, give orders like "crouch walk behind your heavy" to avoid runners, so many tools. It's a learning curve.
Cell wars ain't the answer to solve problems (I always use meatgrinder if the reds are being too much to handle )

I'm 1000% sure this vote won't pass, but I'll state my opinion that I find cell wars to be a cheap minigame.
Aside from having classes which can EASILY overpower other classes, the LONG spectator times and the 1 per cell order, the true thing I dislike is how it's just a simple way out of a situation without truly trying the alternatives.

If I were to suggest ways to ATLEAST make sure that the classes have a fair chance, I would love to suggest a same health bar plugin (from scouts to heavies having the same health bar).
I know there are complications (kunai spy), but it's a option to think about. I used to be a regular at a JB server which had that option active.
(The other options that server had was having all the classes the same speed and having both reds and blue's crits, but I won't suggest that)

And the suggestion Krook made is, after some thinking, a good one too. Having cell wars only playable with these amount of reds (number can be decided later on).

Anyways, thanks for reading my rant if you made it this far.

(for the ones saying that the minigame is a rare occurance, I respectfully disagree. Sure it's currently pretty rare and I like seeing that. But the matches I've mostly been on (september to november) I've seen it happen almost daily. Maybe 2 to 3 matches a day, so it's not that rare)

Spoiler: TLDR for the lazy readers :P

Understandable if you want a succesful round or if understaffed, but I'd say learn to handle the reds/rebellers.
I find cell wars to be a cheap minigame due to it being a simple way out without trying alternatives.
A suggestion I would like to make to eliminate the unfair class advantance problem is giving all classes the same health.
The other suggestion Krook gave is a idea I can get behind too.

 

[BritishMafia]

Short answer, no. Absolutely not.

I hate cell wars as much as the next guy, but you cant deny that without it there would be a LOT more fail rounds.
Its not fun to get a cell with a demo and immediately die, but its a lot more fun than 6 instant failrounds as soon as cells open because theres 28 reds and only 2 blus.

Cell wars is just too useful, and you dont even have to say "One per cell", I really hope this suggestion isnt passed.
If cell wars are outlawed, it'll also just lead to meatgrinder spam, which is so much worse because it means nobody gets to play any minigames.

 

[zevs]

cell wars, as much as i hate to admit it, is needed in jailbreak and is a good game to shave down/ make the red to blue ratio more fair (cant have a 3 v 28 now can we? (i can because im goated tho ))

HOWEVER cell wars is abused and hated because people misuse or overuse it, BUT it CAN be fun and it CAN be liked, but so many people make it SHIT!! (we cannot fix this, this is the "yin" of FF)
on top of that, Nergal said it was not very fun, but les be real, when's the last time the warden was being fun? when an old regular hops on for a solid 2 minutes? epic.

leave this minigame alone no matter how much people sob over it (i am also included in that) because its essential to jailbreak

 

[salguod]

I played exclusively red for about 3 years and there was nothing I hated more than having to wait 10 minutes, even after a long wait from the round before, because of cell wars. I feel like there can be other enacted measures besides cell wars for an overwhelmed blue team within the map,(although it is admiteddly useful for said blue team.)

 

[Empress_Kyuuna]

Nah, let's not ban the only reason why some teams of BLUs get to have successful rounds. Cell Wars is too big of a JB pillar for it to be removed because people are crying that it gets spammed or that they get stuck in spectator for 9 mins. Also... I'm sorry but if you play JB expecting to always be active and alive and playing I'm sorry to break it to you but huh... wrong game mode... or wrong team. Go BLU..?

Oh wait! You want to know how to fix a CW spam on Guards? Join Guards yourself. Be the change you want to see. "But I don't have a mic!" Fair enough, my bad. Not much I can say there tbh. Huh... awkward.

Spoiler: Yap fest. Contains mild-complaints and "bad" opinions.

There you go, problem fixed. And no, limiting its uses will just make it even more complicated for new Guards that don't really know how to Guard / Warden yet. They already get bullied fairly often in here due to how different the general rules are compared to other JB communities. Stop overcomplicating the rules and making the bar to join BLU higher than it already is, especially if You (royal) keep saying that this community is very beginner friendly towards the baby Guards.

And sure, like Musi said, it can be a mixed bag of skill issues on Guards if there's multiple failrounds happening over and over but something that no one mentioned as of yet is how often it is actually REQUESTED by REDs. In the same chunk of game-time that Musi had (Sep-Nov) the number of people asking for CW was also way higher than usual. Wardens lose a lot more by doing something that the REDs don't want to do than going along with what the REDs propose/want. Even more so in low-Guard moments. Situations like these kind of remind me that JB can be very much so RED-sided relatively often; what I mean by that is very simple: how many times do you see Warden asking REDs what they want to play instead of just picking a game themselves and going with it? Pretty much 70-80% of rounds yeah? Crits aside, btw.

People seem to forget that playing BLU can absolutely fucking suck at times when there's a lot of perma-Rebel players. Same thing for RED too! How many times had you gotten your rightfully earned LR stolen last second or even denied from you because someone else went "if I can't have it neither can you" and went to murder the Warden right there. (Bit of a reach there sorry but also not sorry if someone's the last NR RED and you kill Warden just before they give LR you're an asshole. You can wait a few more seconds for the chat-message to say it was given. STARRING hard at Sniper Rebellers.)

I agree that CW is absolutely boring slash annoying as a RED and as a BLU but what I personally find more boring is to lose multiple rounds in a row to the Warden getting swarmed by the whole RED team because they decided to spice things up and not play Climb / Obby / DR / SP or whatever minigame is closest to Cells and the Prisoners Did Not Like That. That or getting a Good Warden but they're surrounded by potatoes. If it keeps happening then waiting on one Dead-Warden clock (3 mins) after the other can EASILY make the entire server wait for more than the 9 min's you'd have spent in post-CW spectator. 'cept that there you get to move around an potentially kill more BLUs, to which I have to say that if your murder drive's that high go play Pubs.

Side note but removing CW should also mean removing Meatgrinder IMO. Both do the same thing: Reduce the number of REDs fast via FF whilst also having a maximum BLU requirement (3 for CW and 4 for MG). I'm actually surprised that MG is not used / complained about more often come to think of it. People might even start using MG as a replacement for CW instead. I wouldn't put it past some people here (not meant negatively or derogatorily, just an observation). Ah wait nvm I know why it's not talked as much it just isn't used as often my bad.

I am so ready to get insulted here for this yap fest lmao. No hard feelings towards anyone who does btw. Y'all's as valid there as I am.

TL;DR of the yap fest:
- Stop overcomplicating pre-existing rules because it makes the game harder for new players which contradicts the "BLU beginner friendly" vibe I've heard people say often.
- High chance of Skill Issue by BLUs but you need to remember that more often than not CW is actively and routinely getting requested by REDs (lately).
- Guards can lose more by denying activities Prisoners want to do than just by obliging their requests if low / high amount of Guards / Prisoners respectively.
- CW is boring but what's more boring is getting stuck in FR loops because the only "good" Warden cannot defend themselves alone if they're surrounded by "bad" Guards.
- If you want to remove CW you need to also consider removing MG because they're pretty much the same mini-game.

 

[CutePyro0]

how often it is actually REQUESTED by REDs. In the same chunk of game-time that Musi had (Sep-Nov) the number of people asking for CW was also way higher than usual.

How many of these requests are serious though the many times i see really 1 or 2 people spamming "cw" simply because they are in their own cell is highly common

 

[Empress_Kyuuna]

How many of these requests are serious though the many times i see really 1 or 2 people spamming "cw" simply because they are in their own cell is highly common

There was a few times we had 3-5 people spamming cw in chat when the server was fairly full a few weeks ago, been too busy IRL to play lately so idk if it's still happening though.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Regardless of the outcome of the other current suggestion regarding Cell Wars, I think most of the community agrees on keeping it as is.
As someone who plays late night quite a bit, the threat of Cell Wars keeps the blu team stocked enough to be *potentially* capable.
Hovering at that 4 Blu Player count is pretty common, and that's usually the minimum required guards to manage a larger group.
Many JB maps have a common three-opening design from cells, which leaves one guard for each unused exit, one to check cells, and then Warden themselves.
At that point its up to the Reds to flank the guards and rebel or try to find creative hiding spots, rather than just sitting in cells or going the one unguarded route.

 

[PFD1]

how about we ban the words [number] per cell