Declined [JB] Adjust the voting rules to allow for common sense (1 Viewer)

[CutePyro0]

Kitchen/Theatre is where the Warden will ask the Prisoners to present a dish/performance. Afterwards the Warden and his Guards will vote on whether the Prisoner should live or not. In events where there is a tie, Wardens can override the decision in whichever direction they want.

Currently the rules for anything that involves voting is basically the above however shouldn't the rules also state a minimum amount of blues required in order to use the blue vote (3 minimum blues) as currently if they is 2 blues and a LR is diner or something similar the warden can basically choose who wins and who doesn't and reds could be petty an report it for favouritism

maybe the rule should say the following:
Kitchen/Theatre is where the Warden will ask the Prisoners to present a dish/performance. Afterwards the Warden and his Guards will vote on whether the Prisoner should live or not. In events where there is a tie, Wardens can override the decision in whichever direction they want. A minimum of 3 blues are required in order to use blue vote function otherwise please use a global vote

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

I don't see any reason to not support this.

A rule to prevent even more favoritism that’s always rampant in these minigames is always a good rule.

 

[CutePyro0]

I don't see any reason to not support this.

A rule to prevent even more favoritism that’s always rampant in these minigames is always a good rule.

i mean i already followed this suggestion as i thought it just made sense and was implied within the rules but it seems it was not so lets fix that

 

[Mehgend]

Requiring the warden vote is silly not going to lie.

I find that it is way clunkier and slower than just typing in team chat

Its not even required atm why even specify the blue/global votes?

 

[SirKrookodile]

Mfs in diner when map vote is active mid minigame so they wait 30+ seconds to do a warden vote when it's just as possible to just vote in team chat

 

[SirKrookodile]

Mfs in diner when map vote is active mid minigame so they wait 30+ seconds to do a warden vote when it's just as possible to just vote in team chat

Although I do agree that when there is 2 or less people alive on blue a global vote should be initiated. I'd try avoid this altogether though, this is only really a good thing for when diner is picked as an LR with like 1 guy on blue.

 

[Bananawastaken]

Something similar to this was floated around, warden vote just isnt flexible enough to be used in time consuming minigames.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

I think if anything even if this vote doesn’t pass, a minimum required blues to play the minigame should still be implemented.

It’s sorta hard to force folks into using warden vote.

 

[BritishMafia]

If this doesnt get added, we should have a separate vote on whether or not warden vote overrides everything, because lets face it, thats just straight up favortism.
But I will be voting yes because I did this all the time and it worked out fine.

 

[Mehgend]

warden vote just isnt flexible enough to be used in time consuming minigames.

ding ding ding

im usnure on what the cooldown is, but if its 15 then a 20 person theater round means half the round will be under cooldown

and if its 30 like someone told me earlier today (which i think is incorrect), then the cooldown total is 10 minutes!

Either way this is far too much time that could be cut down if you just use the teamvote system.
It should 100% be a choice not a requirment
"grahh but what about gagged guards" tell them to not get gagged next time???

 

[Cowboy]

im supportive of a 3 guard requirement but not a fan of requiring warden vote function.

 

[Dr. Meatloaf]

I’m not necessarily against this, but I’m concerned. What happens if we start the minigame with 3 or more blus and then some blus die so the number is less than 3? Does the game now have to be based off a global vote? I’m especially concerned because it seems like that might lead to unequal outcomes if many reds fail under the BLU vote but once we transition to the global vote it’s easier to pass (or maybe it’s the other way around, I guess it depends on who’s playing)

I’m also kind of concerned with using global votes in general. It definitely seems diner/theater could just turn into a popularity contest if we use global votes though it arguably already is so not that big of a deal I guess. The bigger concern with doing a global vote is that reds who are alive in diner have a strong incentive to vote no in order to give themselves a better chance of winning. That means it’s going to be much much harder to win diner if you are one of the first reds to go and much easier if you’re one of the last.

For the time being I’m going to vote no, but if someone can convince me that these concerns aren’t a big deal I might switch.

 

[Mehgend]

im supportive of a 3 guard requirement but not a fan of requiring warden vote function.

this is my stance

I feel like those should be completely different suggestions because both are entirely different things

 

[CutePyro0]

I’m not necessarily against this, but I’m concerned. What happens if we start the minigame with 3 or more blus and then some blus die so the number is less than 3?

no think how cell wars is you need 3 blues at the start of the round to declare the voting would not be different you would just you team chat at that point to keep it going or the warden could decide to make it global

 

[CutePyro0]

this is my stance

I feel like those should be completely different suggestions because both are entirely different things

same to be honest as i just worded this suggestion badly in that regards as with how i have stated the adjustment it would force a warden blue vote.

could the poll be edited to state the 1st option to state the following: A minimum of 3 blues are required in order to use blue vote (team chat or otherwise) otherwise please use a global vote (chat or not)


to be honest it's not common to have less than 3 blues when the server has 20+ red players as normally some would change so i feel this limit would not really be that much of a issue in regards to time

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

I’d rather just have it so that diner and theatre require 3 or more BLUs, otherwise it can’t be played (or it has to be stopped if too many BLUs die during it).

 

[Empress_Kyuuna]

The thing we need to remember (in my honest opinion) about those two minigames is that they are intrinsically connected to Favoritism.

Favoritism cannot be separated from these games due to their very nature requiring a majority vote. If one wants to truly and fully avoid any form of favoritism they cannot play those games. No matter how you try to spin it there will be Favoritism involved. The games literally are dependent on REDs making or doing something that the BLUs like. Any games involving a BLU vote is also included here.

Alt. Idea: Put a limit of how many REDs can be there if Warden wants to do Kitchen / Theater when it's not LR. Like... limit it to a max of 16 REDs? Similar to Prop Hunt on Hop_v12?

Aight that's enough yapping about Kitchen / Theater.

--+--

The original idea to require a minimum of 3 BLUs to use a B.Vote isn't bad and I can see myself applying it during regular gameplay if it becomes official. However I don't agree with forcing the need to use Warden Votes. I think Guards voting in Public chat* (that way REDs can see that Warden didn't lie about the vote results) could be encouraged if the server's quite full in an attempt to bypass the vote timer taking forever. Warden can count votes while the rest of the BLUs do what they should; Guard the Warden. I also side with Meatloaf in saying that, should the Global Vote become official, REDs will most likely massively vote no (unless its someone they like enough; aka Favoritism) to give themselves a higher winning chance. It's also terribly unfair to the REDs to change the voting system mid-minigame.

I remember that back on SG stating that ties were an automatic No was quite common and I still use it myself to thin out the REDs faster, so removing Warden decision on ties isn't something I'll agree on.

*: I can see people arguing that REDs can and will spam during voting time to make the votes last longer to which I have no real answers for.

--+--

I’d rather just have it so that diner and theatre require 3 or more BLUs, otherwise it can’t be played (or it has to be stopped if too many BLUs die during it).

Like I said earlier, that option is unfair to the already dead REDs that have failed the vote and died during the minigame and the still alive REDs who might've wanted to get their turn in the minigame. I could actually see this encouraging REDs that don't like the minigame to massively rebel in attempts to thwart playing it (fair enough). Thus encouraging Wardens to decide not to play them in return whilst they're already underplayed (IMO because I fucking love Kitchen and I'm always happy to play it).

Anyways, here's my current final decision on this: Keep the rules how they currently are. I personally do not see anything that needs to be changed and any changes that I can think of currently has too many drawbacks.

Sidenote: Sorry for the huge rant. I have no brain power left and I got no idea if this stayed on topic.

 

[BritishMafia]

Maybe we should just make it so if theres a tie, its an automatic yes (or no if we want) because the very idea of warden overriding everything and getting to decide seems a bit dumb.
Or maybe just let the automatic voting system decide it and leave it up to chance (because people love rng baby!!!)


EDIT: also we should probably have a new vote with the options separated more because I agree with Mehgend

 

[Musisphaera]

I'd promised myself not to involve myself with all the suggestions but here we are:

I have the following points regarding the suggestion:

• I see a problem if global vote is used. If we use global vote then all reds will vote no because they want the chance of getting LR or because they don't want the other guys to get LR, resulting in a failround.
  I'm against the global vote functionality.
• I'm in a mixed bag regarding the requirement to have it blue vote only. Not all blue's know how the command works or knows (!) a second page exists. I see myself using it mostly though, but I don't mind if other blue's are just using teamchat.

I am however in favor of a 3 minimum requirement to do such minigames in question as Calassic and Nergal suggested, even if it is an LR. If there are less than 3 blue's alive by either start of by rebel hands, the minigame cannot be done.

That option is unfair to the already dead REDs that have failed the vote and died during the minigame and the still alive REDs who might've wanted to get their turn in the minigame.

I can highly understand that it is unfair for the reds who died by the vote, didn't have their chance or has made the LR. But it is like if the warden is killed by Hunger Games and there are like only 2 reds remaining. So close to LR yet it is denied by the rebelling red. Another thing is if the freeday at the final moment (I'm looking at someone specifically ) kills the warden who is about to give the LR and causes the failround. Such things can't be avoided.

Alt. Idea: Put a limit of how many REDs can be there if Warden wants to do Kitchen / Theater when it's not LR. Like... limit it to a max of 16 REDs? Similar to Prop Hunt on Hop_v12?

This is a good idea too and I'm not against it. Having it a specific player amount before we do that minigame in question.


My proposal is if an admin like @Nergal Nergalton or @Bananawastaken could add 3 more options on the vote and that is "enabling a requirement of 3 blue's to have the minigame/vote", having global vote a seperate option and to have Kyuuna's suggestion of "having it a minimum of *amount* reds alive for the minigame"

 

[Bananawastaken]

Declining due to poll results