Declined [JB] A possible solution to Anti-Delay (1 Viewer)

[Gale]

Personally the more I've gone on about reading this and time from other servers. Let's say roughly 5 servers I used to regular on there was never freedays to drag onto. However playing here quite a bit more I've garnered differing perspectives, unsure how much this message will have an impact on voting as potentially people may already have their minds set on a specific ruling, but I am going to put some decent effort to this so lets get to it. I have a PHD in Yapology etc etc... Let's dive into the meat of it.

This change came into effect 4 days ago. My playtime in those 4 days have been 1 day and 1 hour. (Shocking I know). I have seen several rounds from both red and blu. I primarily play red and tend to rebel often so that will be the perspective of someone you are getting. Likewise with experience overall, hell I used to write rules for JB servers myself.

The issue I've had with slaying after 2 minutes is that A it's no fun really to either play as a guard knowing your time is limited so why bother, B it doesn't feel rewarding to generally rebel, and C A, but as a non rebelling red (Not being able to practice minigames)

I usually like freedays as a red as it means that I am able to practice more minigames with free reign, 2 minutes typically is not enough for that. I've had times where I am walking to minigames I enter and I get halfway done before [ADMIN] Blue team has been slayed to prevent delay. I understand that there are times where there are dead reds that died to orders and want to play, but to me it depends on when the freeday started. If a red died early and is complaining about having to wait so long to play again chances are they will die at the start again. There won't be much in pleasing them. Freedays are quite nice to me as I get to enjoy the map without much concern, it is practically a reward for staying alive or causing a warden to die you get to do as you please(But for only 2 minutes?). Doesn't seem too right for me.

Then we have to take this into the perspective of the red who likely caused the failround and quite often that tends to be me. Often times when a warden dies the guards are soon to follow either via revolt or from the initial red that killed warden and let me tell you it is very satisfying to wipe an entire blue team out. What is not satisfying is when once you do so, and you attempt to hunt the rest of the blue team that scattered after warden died only for them to be slayed 2 minutes later. While 2 minutes to a lot of people may seem like a lot of time, it really isn't when you pay attention to rounds like warday, rebelling rounds, and freeday for all. In all of these rounds such a short timer seems to be quite a hinderance. You don't get to really enjoy the full intended experience for them.

The last point I wanted to really bring up was how it impacts guards. From my time playing most people have told me this is really to prevent delays which while a valid point, often I never really see the slay do it's intended purpose. For every 3 freedays, the slay would occur during a LGKA often while there is 1 or 2 reds left alive to kill. The round was already going to end, but now it instead ends with much less fanfare from both sides. Why bother stopping a rebel when you're dead in 2 minutes, or hunting as the last guard. Ultimately it won't really matter much. It makes blues less inclined to really care what happens after a warden dies. The hinderance effect that you will end up dead in 2 minutes after warden dies to make blues be better doesn't often work. The philosophy of throwing a kid into the deep end of a pool doesn't mean he's going to magically learn how to swim, he'll likely drown. In the case of slays, the blues drown, a lot. Giving them more time to hunt rebellers and actively LGKA in my eyes makes them better at the game and can teach them how to be better guards.

I know this is a whole lot of speak that won't likely matter to most, but I did want to give my thoughts out in a concrete manner and hopefully convince a few people. While I do understand it may be soon I've been playing for a bit and not everyone who plays ingame is on the forums, so I wanted to share what I've seen from people saying ingame. While I do understand that the plugin is there to stop the delaying issue, what issue? Often I never really see this plugin kill delayers, and even then they'll likely be reported or ghosted and killed swiftly. That's the biggest reasoning I hear to keep it, but it's not something I've tended to see in action ever.

 

[zevs]

2 minutes for auto-slay is good because theres a guarantee to kill one team entirely, while at the same time maybe someone rebels and hurries it up
the issue with auto-rebel is that there is no certainty of anyone getting killed asap when they have rebel status ; when someone gets rebel status, they'll go and hide or go and get ammo, which will drag the round for too long, if this is going to be added, it would be better to shorten the timer because we also have to consider that people need time to get ammo, to be found, etc, etc you get the idea!!

take a large map for example, casuarina or volcano, where it takes a solid minute to traverse as a medium-speed class - having 2 minutes of people just walking and fuckin around doesnt sound too good for the sake of time-this also applies to blue team- but what im trying to say here is that if we have 2 minutes of waiting before they are forced to kill eachother on either of these maps, there is an incredibly large chance that we will have to wait for over another minute or so for the teams to find eachother as they could walk in opposite directions

im not good at yapping- but my point is good, i just cant explain it well cuz im half asleep atm!!1!!

let me rephrase
if we have a red team member going to one end of the map on eg volcano, in eg the ammo spot in true or false, and a blue in armory, and timer autorebels the red, the blue will have to walk aaaall the way to the other side of the map, which will take at least one minute and then maybe the red will go in another direction in which it would further delay the round and yada yada yada you get the point
in reality, it wont be 2:20 until the round ends, its closer to 3:20 or 4:20, hell, maybe even more

tldr; if this gets added, it would be better to shorten the timer for it to be effective (or just dont add it lol)

 

[dimitree]

I back the plugin as it is.

If the reds managed to kill the warden fair play but the gaurds should be slayed as they clearly did a terrible job at being a gaurd.

I get its annoying for the rest of the reds as the round is "ruined", but assumeing a red managed to kill the warden and that person is rewarded with points and the satisfaction that they did win the round.

The people suggesting give reds ammo and add rebeller status are wrong as I believe changing the current plugin would incentivize more reds to rebel for a budget warday at the end of the round.
Theres no need to add a different mechanic as rebelling is the same mechanic. If you have an itch to do something rebellious you can scratch it by rebelling.

If you want to rebel you should put effort in the next round and find you oppertunity to get away or kill the warden.

The current dynamic of quick paced rounds I think is good as if a red manages to successfully rebel everyone moves onto the next round quick.
At which point they can either rebel again and repeat the process till the blu's manage to successfully win a round.

Some people might mention the fact that its unfair the remaining blu's but it should be.
Gaurds shouldn't be incentivisied to only do their job once the warden is dead, they should be active during the round not at the end.

 

[Mehgend]

This misunderstands what makes the anti delay plugin great, the slaying is the entire point

No we all kinda get the point of it, I just personally think the timer is far too short and rarely, if ever with the new shortened timer, ACTUALLY prevents delay.

Maybe twice ever in my experience? I remember once on hop. But I often find most of the time rounds just take an eternity while warden is alive, or freedays last like 2 seconds as the entire team is wiped by everyone rebelling or everyone dies in the middle of all of that.

It’s just incredibly deflating and leaves the round on a sour note all in the name of saving 5 minutes of people’s precious time.

The timer if anything should be longer. I swear almost no one actually has had delaying be stopped with the plugin the way it was, let alone currently is. You don’t constantly need to be playing the game to have fun. Your screen doesn’t go black when you die. Some of my fondest memories on JB include stuff that happened while spectating. I learned a lot about the game mode and ways I can play it while spectating. I don’t see a point to completely shut down a lot of that to be completely honest.

Not against the timer, but 3 minutes was never enough for any map bigger than something like mlcastle to allow for a fulfilling free day and/or LGKA.
Let alone the massive maps like volcano and Casurina (barring you’re a sniper lol) it takes a good portion of the 2 minutes 20 seconds to even walk from parts of maps to another point on a handful of maps.

 

[Musisphaera]

I actually wanted to limit my forum posts but here we are:

My view of the suggestion:
The suggestion has some good points that I can get behind, but I see problems.
To index the points:

• If it comes to it, it'll be a topic for unnecesary reporting for non-complying blue's (reason: delaying killing rebelling reds/inactive guard)
• Reds who just want to do minigames will get rebel status without even doing something KOS in the first place
• Some reds might not actively comply to the rebel stuff and "can hide". While the delayer can be ratted out, the delayer can still run if it is a class difference
• Most already said it, but maps like Famous/Volcano/Stormfront/etc. makes it impossible to stop delayers

• So we'd go back to being stuck in spectator watching a scout run around the map delaying for five minutes like it was before the new plugin arived.

• Before this we already had a “make every red KOS after some time” system, it was called LGKA. That wasn’t enough. People weren’t just upset about the time it took for 2 guards to become 1, they were upset that LGKA itself could take a while, even on small maps.

I like addition of this plugin and where it is now. Though I wish it was 3 minutes again but that's just me wishful thinking
(and seeing more people wishing it was longer again, I believe the original suggestion should've been playtested if it TRULY was short. I'm typing that because I see yapping that it is short even to those IN FAVOUR of the 2 minute mark )

Having the plugin removed in favour of the above suggestion will just cause more iritation and "welp... time to be stuck in spectator for 9 minutes" situations.
I dont mind waiting in spectator, but a lot don't have the patience.

Because I’m free to suggest whatever on a public forum. I’ve also stopped playing because, not to sound rude, but I have a life. I’m a full time student, and work 32hr weeks, and on my off-time I have personal projects. I do play jailbreak when I want and I believe playtime or playing on the server regularly is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to justifying any suggestion.

For me as well, not to sound rude but I disagree with that statement.
I agree that you have the right to make suggestions and some of the suggestions you made (like the 3 guard voting requirement) are good suggestions though you are barely on.
But with those points, this suggestion misses the mark. As you are missing the opinions of other players and hearing about them (leaving the discord out on this) + seeing it in real time while doing the activity itself.
I just disagree with that view, sorry for that.

i would very much like to see this implemented, and if it turns out to be shite then we can always revert it to what it was before.

If we are seriously considering this plugin, I'm in favour of playtesting it firstly to avoid "reverting" and being stuck for a little while with "our" mistake

Anyways thanks for reading

TLDR:

• Good idea on paper, but it has flaws
• I wish we stick with the plugin
• After the 2 minute is implemented, I see a lot of yapping that the timer is short even to those in favour of 2 minutes previously
• Disagreeing with Calassic about that you can post anything without activity
• I'm in favour of playtesting to avoid having to stick with "our" mistakes

 

[hehe troll]

I actually wanted to limit my forum posts but here we are:

My view of the suggestion:
The suggestion has some good points that I can get behind, but I see problems.
To index the points:

• If it comes to it, it'll be a topic for unnecesary reporting for non-complying blue's (reason: delaying killing rebelling reds/inactive guard)
• Reds who just want to do minigames will get rebel status without even doing something KOS in the first place
• Some reds might not actively comply to the rebel stuff and "can hide". While the delayer can be ratted out, the delayer can still run if it is a class difference
• Most already said it, but maps like Famous/Volcano/Stormfront/etc. makes it impossible to stop delayers
• 
  

I like addition of this plugin and where it is now. Though I wish it was 3 minutes again but that's just me wishful thinking
(and seeing more people wishing it was longer again, I believe the original suggestion should've been playtested if it TRULY was short. I'm typing that because I see yapping that it is short even to those IN FAVOUR of the 2 minute mark )

Having the plugin removed in favour of the above suggestion will just cause more iritation and "welp... time to be stuck in spectator for 9 minutes" situations.
I dont mind waiting in spectator, but a lot don't have the patience.


For me as well, not to sound rude but I disagree with that statement.
I agree that you have the right to make suggestions and some of the suggestions you made (like the 3 guard voting requirement) are good suggestions though you are barely on.
But with those points, this suggestion misses the mark. As you are missing the opinions of other players and hearing about them (leaving the discord out on this) + seeing it in real time while doing the activity itself.
I just disagree with that view, sorry for that.


If we are seriously considering this plugin, I'm in favour of playtesting it firstly to avoid "reverting" and being stuck for a little while with "our" mistake

Anyways thanks for reading

TLDR:

• Good idea on paper, but it has flaws
• I wish we stick with the plugin
• After the 2 minute is implemented, I see a lot of yapping that the timer is short even to those in favour of 2 minutes previously
• Disagreeing with Calassic about that you can post anything without activity
• I'm in favour of playtesting to avoid having to stick with "our" mistakes

after reading through this and some other messages i change my vote to a no.
i now am of opinion that the plugin exists for a reason and giving all remaining REDs rebel status after the warden dies (and i assume is locked too) is not a smart idea.

 

[Bananawastaken]

Declining due to poll results