Important Jailbreak 2.0 (1 Viewer)

[Clic Clic Boom]

First of all, I wanted to make this thread on one of the admins sections, but I believe that everyones opinions matter, admins or simple players, on this question, that's why I decided to make it here :

So, as you all know, or not, Jailbreak got updated recently, where the biggest changes are the fact that :

• REDs Demomen can not charge anymore (while BLUs can though)
• The first round of a map will always be a Freeday (Celldoors/Armoury door open during this first round)
• The perma. Kritz for BLUs got changed to mini-crits (which is probably the most important change)
• There is now the ability of using the rtv and nominate commands

I, personnally, did not have anything against the fact that the perm. Kritz got replaced by Mini-Crits, as I thought it could make easier for the REDs to rebel, instead of randomly getting killed by a Gibus guy who had a lucky shot, but, I got to admit it, this is way too hard to handle a round now, where you got 6 REDs running in all directions, 10 others staying in their cells, hesitating between rebelling or stayind kindly there to receive a potential Last Request, and while you only have your 2 Spies guards, who could generally not kill an idling Heavy, trying to shoot on moving targets.

The fact is, all the Jailbreak regulars complained about this new system, whether about the mini-crits or whether about a LR that comes from nowhere when the last standing RED dies, and we just can't deny it, if it's not benefic for our players, then there is no need for such an update to stay.

Even if there was this poll about removing Kritz from BLUs, or suggestions about instoring class limits, removing charges, and all that ... Let's face it, the previous system is, and will always be, the only way to play Jailbreak. We may say that Kritz are too overpowered sometimes, but with this new update, we just saw that without them, it is literally an unplayable gamemod.

Without adding the fact that some opinions did not get heared, as it would just add some oil on the fire, this new system doesn't have his place anymore on the Jailbreak server, even if it was just on for a day, it has been enough to figure it out.

That's why we (from the Jailbreak admins to simple players) demand you, @Kevin, to replace it by the old system.

 

[CiroBishop]

Fantastic!
I think I will come back on Jb, then.

 

[Mr.Fluffy]

Oh suddenly you miss kritz? Hah! Told you!
But yeah, this new System turns the gamemode upside down. There is no more control over the prisoners. For example imagine your blue Team consisting of 3 Players against 14....minikritz will not handle that. Also the fact that most guards would never be able to catch an escaping prisoner Scout except if they are a Scout themselves.

 

[Matth]

Eh, I predicted it

Kevin, as nth proof of my motivation in favour of the kritz, yesterday night I made 10-15 rounds with: 1/2 BLUs vs 6/7 REDs. Prisoners won all of them (it was mainly me prisoner who tricked the warden ) but still, let's admit that it's impossible to handle the situation in this way.

Please, if you can, I... we ask you to bring back the old system (only the thing about kritz, all the rest is good).

 

[OxyGenE]

Oh suddenly you miss kritz? Hah! Told you!
But yeah, this new System turns the gamemode upside down. There is no more control over the prisoners. For example imagine your blue Team consisting of 3 Players against 14....minikritz will not handle that. Also the fact that most guards would never be able to catch an escaping prisoner Scout except if they are a Scout themselves.

i allways voted to leave them and i am glad to see players regret too ^^

 

[Clic Clic Boom]

Edited : Added a poll. Don't be afraid to vote/comment, that's the point of this poll, to know everyones opinions. Make your answers clear enough if you are picking the 3rd option, please.

 

[Madact]

@Senior Admin @Trial Gameserver Admin @Gameserver Admin

 

[OxyGenE]

i have been questioning myself about my reaction to this update and thought what if i was wrong and others right? what if these changes where actually good? so i stay neutral and let others decide, i reintegrate jailbreak and apologise for all the mess.

 

[Matth]

• REDs Demomen can not charge anymore (while BLUs can though)

• The first round of a map will always be a Freeday (Celldoors/Armoury door open during this first round)

• The perma. Kritz for BLUs got changed to mini-crits (which is probably the most important change)

• There is now the ability of using the rtv and nominate commands

Among these, after restoring back the whole previous system,
I'd only like the 1st one: Demos on RED shouldn't charge, and the reasons are kept in the corps of the many wardens, dead leaving a freeday, because of a charging demo.

About the rtv and the nominate, and about the first day freeday, for me it's not a big problem. The problems are others. We can leave them if people want.

About the kritz, as said and explained somewhere else by me and other users/admins, we need them. I talk as Admin, as usual RED and as (a bit less) usual BLU. This is my humble opinion.

 

[Clic Clic Boom]

(Had a problem with the poll, It's up again, revote/vote if you did not already)

 

[Da Random]

Demos on RED shouldn't charge

The first day the change got into effect there was chaos, but well managed crits and predicting (and also no standing still) will keep those demoknights at bay.

I'm in favor of getting back the old system since it's way too complicated to handle so many prisoners now.

 

[Wolf]

I have to admit that I would like the old Jailbreak more then it is now.
There are a couple of bugs in the new one and the looks/loadout/HUD of the menu's are a bit more complicated and vague if you ask me.
--
There are some things in the new Jailbreak I really enjoy tho!
-The Nextmap vote menu: Now players can vote for what map comes next and you can even nominate maps.
-Removal of the shieldcharge in RED: Some players found out that you can make a hell of a round to go full charging demo's. it was funny at first but some people would actually like to play the game normally
-Less time to do the rounds: It have changed to 10 minutes instead of 12. I think 10 is more then enough to play a round of Jailbreak.

I'm glad to see that the Panda community is activly working on making a better Jailbreak experience for all to enjoy.
This was a great opportunity to see how the servers work out with the new idea we have.
Now it would be a great time to note down what things we might concider taking on the servers, and which things we should admit that it worked better out on paper then online on our servers.

Please don't let the first day freeday be a thing...

 

[Matth]

but well managed crits and predicting (and also no standing still) will keep those demoknights at bay.

Ehm... well, we experienced it for so much time, with the same conditions. (And that's why before the update we didn't have the charging, people didn't want it, I remember.) Anyway:
Unluckily, what is missing in your speech is the lack of "skill" by some players. That's also the reason why we want Kritz to be restored.
Not everybody, most of Guards/Wardens (with or without Kritz: as I said, we experienced it) are not able to manage Charging Demos. And, the reason why the charging was removed by Kevin is this same reason (due to the complains of users, too): 90% of Wardens are not "skilled" enough to manage the demos, and they are killed. (And in 70% of cases, other Guards are not able to help him).
And, it means, an about of 80% more freedays than usual. Wasted days, I'd call them.

I said my opinion. Pay attention to this.
I don't think @Kevin will re-change things so easily in case of the old definitive system (in this case, with the chargings). And, if people will complain about charging demos again, I'll stand Kevin's bore to change it again.

Please, take a serious and responsible decision. Now or "never".

 

[Wolf]

Not everybody, most of Guards/Wardens (with or without Kritz: as I said, we experienced it) are not able to manage Charging Demos. And, the reason why the charging was removed by Kevin is this same reason (due to the complains of users, too): 90% of Wardens are not "skilled" enough to manage the demos, and they are killed.

What Matt-ers explains here is exactly my thoughds on the charging Demo situations on Jailbreak.
Ofcourse we could find a way to counter-part the Charging Demoman's but that isn't the point really.
We are discussing this for the whole community that includes players who are new to our servers.
--
There are some things that new players have to learn about jailbreak like new tricks on how to maintain your prisoners by learning new orders like the Medics shouldn't heal before I got a Uber problem.
But The charging Demo isn't really a situation what would be easy to avoid if you tell them to "not Charge"
Spy's can end the round really quickly by a back/trick -stab but the big diffrence is, is that our Spy here have to switch to his knife first and Demoman here can charge at any moment if he see fit.

Let's keep the removal of the Charging Demoman not just for "us", but for the community!

 

[Sir Andy]

In my personal opinion, I'm glad permanent full critz are gone. It made it incredibly hard to rebel, which in my opinion is the factor that makes jailbreak fun for the prisoners/reds. If the guards are sensible in their class selection opting for the likes of pyros and heavies instead of Scouts then you should have the damage and health to manage the rebellers. Otherwise when you try to rebel with perma crits you could be chased and killed easily by a scout making it way too easy for the guards. Minicritz allow plenty of damage without it being too over powered. However first day freeday is not the best addition due the fact it can just delay the whole game for players who loaded in too late without reds opting not to rebel.

 

[Wolf]

In my personal opinion, I'm glad permanent full critz are gone. It made it incredibly hard to rebel, which in my opinion is the factor that makes jailbreak fun for the prisoners/reds. If the guards are sensible in their class selection opting for the likes of pyros and heavies instead of Scouts then you should have the damage and health to manage the rebellers. Otherwise when you try to rebel with perma crits you could be chased and killed easily by a scout making it way too easy for the guards. Minicritz allow plenty of damage without it being too over powered. However first day freeday is not the best addition due the fact it can just delay the whole game for players who loaded in too late without reds opting not to rebel.

I think the charm of rebelling comes with stealth, sneak past the guards if they look the other way.
No-one alive could tell his story of how he survived ignoring orders from a warden with armed guards having a sight on them. (just like real life)
Being a rebeller is a certain skill people have to master over time.

There are plenty enough people who would like to play the minigames on the map as wel.
Actually recieving the Last request and have the feeling of completion of the round is missing in the Jailbreak 2.0 sadly.
It is very rare to get a "normal" round where the guards could succeed to get the prisoners to the followed minigames without the warden brutally getting slaughtered on unspeakable ways.

 

[Shadow_the_lazy_wolf]

Largely neutral on this whole crit thing. If full crits get reinstalled then i just wont play red again(Too much of a hasle to rebel).The only thing that i dont like about this update witch i noticed in wolfs post is the time shortening from 12 to 10 min .In my opinion that just not a good idea.It pretty much forces all rounds to be rushed and only minigames who are played are ones where a lot of people die fast (obby;deathrun;crush game...)While games lake theater and stage chaos get rarely picked becouse of time sortage.Even before this update came i could see people doing theater and forced to suddenly do hunger games just to give somebody lr.

 

[Madact]

It's really to do with the playerbase. Unlike back in the day of BlackOut, I'm and some other people are used to no crits...But this is because it had a solid jailbreak community which had pretty competent guards.

If sometime in the future the Jailbreak server gets a good stand of players with excellent mic quality and teamwork then yes...it will be possible! But right now it isn't.

If anything it's made me want to go red more because of it xD even 3 LR freedays has returned! Though the plugin seems to be ...neater for some reason, a lot of issues have returned back.

Maybe with some new editions *hint hint* things might look up a bit better.

 

[Clic Clic Boom]

The thing is, the problem is not about letting Demomen charge or not, it's even bigger than that.

This new update literally and completly ruined the gamemod, of course it's better for REDs as they can rebel as soon as they want, but it leads to have 3 BLUs being scared of playing with 15+ potential rebellers, when, even if they choose overpowered classes, they can kill 6-7 of them, at max, but not all.

There are too many things to fix in this one to simply fix all of them, this view is utopic. The older version was working perfectly, it's even easier to just add it back, instead of correcting all these little things, day after day, till we get something "decent" one day.

As many people complain about the charging part demoman, I still think that we must allow them to charge, just, we could limit it by establishing a Demoman limit per round. In that way, it's fair for the persons who still want charging Demoman, as it's clearly not that hard to deny a charge (Yeah, really, and if a BLU dies by it, then he should get back into the RED team) , and on the other side, persons who were bored of getting charged by a tons of Demomans, will just feel better by having a less amount of potential kamikazes.

But, really, don't turn this thread into a Let/Don't let Demos charge thread, as the point is another and way more important than this little detail. Feel free to argue about that, when we will get back the "old" version, the details are simply details, don't turn them into a great cause for which you could die for.

Adding the "Yes" and "Partially" answers together, we've ~75% for a change, against 25% who enjoy this new system, even in the worst dictatorships, this result would mean something, so don't deny it and listen to the majority.

 

[Matth]

Don't be afraid to vote/comment, that's the point of this poll, to know everyones opinions. Make your answers clear enough if you are picking the 3rd option, please.

Feel free to argue about that, when we will get back the "old" version, the details are simply details, don't turn them into a great cause for which you could die for.

A bit contradictory, in my opinion It would be better to solve everything now, from a side.
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Anyway, yes, I also think this. Let's start restoring back the old system, for the health of our server, because this actual system is full of problems.
Then, we can see what can change and so on.

But, in my humble opinion, as Wolf said, the fact of demomen's charge is very important.

Don't care. Let's at least start with the previous version before this "bugged" one.