[FF2] Rework the Vaccinator (1 Viewer)

[KronKrian]

As the title suggests, the Vaccinator is ridiculously strong in FF2. It allows a medic to control his Uber meter and release it selectively, resulting in up to 4 separate, controlled uber pops that the medic can very swiftly regain by healing or by (safely) dealing damage to the boss with Crossbow or by ubersawing him, which by the way GUARANTEES a charge on a successful hit. I don't think I need to put into any further detail just how extremely broken, unfair and punishing this is for an average Hale. It completely obliterates the traditional Medic-Hale interactions and influencing of each other due to the medic gaining an extreme advantage as a result of using the Vaccinator. I am aware that the Vaccinator has a few additional weaknesses the other mediguns don't have, notably:
- The inability to overheal allies (he can receive overheal himself from other medics)
- The inability to be influenced by explosives like rocket jumping or sticky jumping (which is up for debate on whether it's a downside or an upside)
In my opinion those weaknesses are not nearly enough to compensate for the sheer amount of control the medic gains over a Hale's actions, not only for himself but also for teammates.

I suggest the Vaccinator either:
1. Gets pulled in line with the other medigun, effectively becoming a reskin.
OR
2. Receives further nerfs and weaknesses to compensate, to which I suggest 1 or more of the following:
* Reduction of Ubercharge rate gain to stock medigun
* Reduction of the amount of charges the Vaccinator can hold at any given time to 2 or 1
* Inability to be overhealed in any capacity, except by relevant RTD effects
* Start round at 0% Ubercharge - To clarify, right now a Vaccinator medic begins the round with 1 and a half charge ready, which means that RIGHT OFF THE BAT, a Vaccinator medic is ready to save himself or a teammate from certain death.

Discuss.

 

[Skull]

It will have 3 bars only in the next update.

 

[Aerial]

I've tried both, I prefer the stock way more.


So since we have for now, just two mediguns, I will compare them to each other

It's either the stock, that can overheal and has the regular uber

and then the vacc, can uses uber four charges and no overheals for anyone or himself.



The stock can overheal people, gives them an opportunity to perhaps survive a hit, and the medic **does not have to keep an eye** on the overhealed player, and upon using his uber, which is a continuous uber, not charges, he can switch uber from a player to another, making him capable of protecting anyone in his field of view. plus overhealing them to protect the other ofc.

The advantages of The stock:

1- Overheals and Self overhealing when ubering.

2- Continuous uber.

3- Multiple people ubered at a time.


The disadvantages of The stock:

1- Needs some time to charge the uber.

2- Not having the uber ready allows the medic to be vulnerable to be attacked from the boss.

3- can't uber at any time.






The vaccinator can uber almost at any moment, so long there is charges, It can prevent any sudden bosses abilities, making it rage counter(for the most part of course, not always). It doesn't overheal people, Hence ***You must keep an eye*** on whoever you're trying to save, or self overheals upon ubering. overall, the vacc seems much much less of a teamwork medigun in my opinion, because you have a one focus or much limited site to be an actual medic, The vacc is more offensive. fits more for a combat medic than the stock for sure.


The advantages of the vaccinator:

1- Quick to refill uber, Uber is ready to be used for the most part of the gameplay at any moment.

2- Rage counter, can cancel any rage usage almost instantly.

3- Risk benefit, More suitable for offense.


The disadvantages of the vaccinator:

1- No overheals. This is really a critical point ngl, you can't protect the team or multiple people at a time, but instead you must uber to protect one other player. (Put in mind, that there is also no self overheals upon ubering)

2- the uber isn't continuous, a competent boss will wait for that one gap and hits you, sure you could kind of make it continuous-like but highly fatal because no self overheals. and very dependent on the team to protect you.

3- the vacc cannot multi uber people, it's one at a time for each person. and if you ubered without healing the teammate before, you're ubered alone. but not the teammate. So to uber him, you must be already linked to him.



Overall, I really don't find the vacc broken at all, I've seen people crying hard of how busted it is.. it's really not.

I wanted to give my point of view, to help people maybe see it from a different perspective. and not actually do some kind of a nerf, or a buff, or anything, I find it decent as it is. Not overpowered, Not useless, It serve it's purpose.





If any change is really necessary, is disabling medic to gain overheals from a non vaccinator user, aside from that, the weapon is not broken.

 

[Otis/Uncodex]

Played it, tested it, it builds Uber too fast, it's anti-fun, it makes Medics survivability too strong. The negatives, from what I've seen do not help whatsoever.
A complete and utter removal is, in my personal opinion necessary.

I would rather take this to vote before it gets nerfed to '3 Bars' - and decide from that point forward if it even deserves to exist in the next update.

 

[EKJMNY45]

i think after seeing krian fail to pick anyone out of that nest after 5+ attempts due to denied ubers is complete bullshit, nobody is going to wait the ubers out to sink damage to get a small window to kill one medic, not to mention how it can effectively deny early picks incredibly effortlessly

i doubt even 3 charges at 33% each would be fair to fight, this is just incredibly annoying and nullifies the downtime on medic and allows endless pressure on boss. not to mention how well it goes with engineers crowd control and melee. whereas a boss could get a pick or atleast bait out an uber before, now medic can just pop it with no penalty (as he has 3 more charges anyway) any by the time the charge runs out the boss is blasted away or takes loads of damage

no overheal can be situationally bad, but unless you are actively going out of your way to apply overheal (not to mention how spies and snipers typically dont benefit ie diamondback/razorback) the whole point of being able to deny a early pick with overheal can easily be achieved with the easy to build uber pop

either gut it, completely rework it or revert it. as its stands it is really unfun and oppressive

 

[SirJaeden]

either remove it or rebalance it.
one example aside from removing the extra building uber charge rate is that the uber requires 50% charge instead. Would still make it viable but removes the toxicity of having 4 counters against the hale which is just so dumb because it counters many hale abilities that its not even fun anymore.

the vac is also absoutely a teamwork gun. while it cant uber several people at once you just uber the front/targeted person and block the hale via that (which most of the time did cost them abilities). especially teleport or certain movement hales suffer from that because of the long cooldowns.

It requires the hale a lot in order to get through your 3-4 charges you have built up (not accounting for the uber youre still building up in between the ubers for even more charges). Sure it may not be difficult to take out if there are only very few people left but so does the stock medigun and even then the vacc still has the upper hand in most cases.

it gives the medics exra tools to be cancer to fight against, especially aggressive ones that dont have to fear being killed because the can just pop a charge without care and actively hunt the hale.
you can also farm a lot of points (100+) per round by just ubering which i think is not intended.

In my opinion, this is one of the worst weapons/changes for ff2 i ever saw.

 

[Skull]

Opinions about replacing uber with %75 or %50 damage resistence?

 

[Aerial]

I would rather removal lol

 

[KronKrian]

Opinions about replacing uber with %75 or %50 damage resistence?

Seems pretty pointless because 75% and 50% of stomp damage still kills a medic, even an overhealed one, and that is a pretty common way to deal with medic. I'd rather we just nerf it in some way that makes it somewhat fair than to remove a unique mechanic from the game.

I personally believe that reducing the charges to 2, preventing overheal period and starting the round with 0% Ubercharge will be enough.

 

[Aerial]

Seems pretty pointless because 75% and 50% of stomp damage still kills a medic, even an overhealed one, and that is a pretty common way to deal with medic. I'd rather we just nerf it in some way that makes it somewhat fair than to remove a unique mechanic from the game.

I personally believe that reducing the charges to 2, preventing overheal period and starting the round with 0% Ubercharge will be enough.

I second this, but make it also in addition to not allow the medic receive overheal by a non vac user.

 

[KronKrian]

I second this, but make it also in addition to not allow the medic receive overheal by a non vac user.

That's what I meant when I said preventing overheal tbh. My bad, didn't make it clear enough.

 

[Mira]

i think uber should only be usable for the medic themself instead of being able to uber someone so that medics cant keep saving other medics it will make it a lot less annoying since i think the main issue is the fact 4 medics can keep ubering each other as well when they have the vacc so being able to uber yourself only would make it a lot less annoying, btw im talking about uber only medics can still heal with it just not uber other people it would get annoying having 4 medics with vacc being able to uber each other 4 seperate times

 

[KronKrian]

i think uber should only be usable for the medic themself instead of being able to uber someone so that medics cant keep saving other medics it will make it a lot less annoying since i think the main issue is the fact 4 medics can keep ubering each other as well when they have the vacc so being able to uber yourself only would make it a lot less annoying, btw im talking about uber only medics can still heal with it just not uber other people

Yeah, we had that happen today as well. There were 4 medics pocketing each other along with a demoknight, boss couldn't do anything about it due to how fast Ubercharges were being restored by the vac boys. Maybe ubercharge gain rate should also be brought down to the rate of stock medigun along with what was agreed above with Aerial.

Admittedly, I was also tempted to propose the reduction of the medic limit down to 3 during the draft of this proposal, but maybe that is going too far.

 

[EKJMNY45]

Yeah, we had that happen today as well. There were 4 medics pocketing each other along with a demoknight, boss couldn't do anything about it due to how fast Ubercharges were being restored by the vac boys. Maybe ubercharge gain rate should also be brought down to the rate of stock medigun along with what was agreed above with Aerial.

Admittedly, I was also tempted to propose the reduction of the medic limit down to 3 during the draft of this proposal, but maybe that is going too far.

medic should be limited to 3max, 4 is just too much

 

[Aerial]

Yeah, we had that happen today as well. There were 4 medics pocketing each other along with a demoknight, boss couldn't do anything about it due to how fast Ubercharges were being restored by the vac boys. Maybe ubercharge gain rate should also be brought down to the rate of stock medigun along with what was agreed above with Aerial.

Admittedly, I was also tempted to propose the reduction of the medic limit down to 3 during the draft of this proposal, but maybe that is going too far.

medic should be limited to 3max, 4 is just too much

Four of any class is ridiculous to begin with, Not just medic, Each class have their own mix of poison when the class is 4x



Nonetheless, I would vote Yes on Medic class limit reduction to 3 rather than 4.