Consistent Hale damage (2 Viewers)

[EvoWarrior5]

Hello,

I have had this suggestion in mind for some time now but I waited with it because newer maps and such had higher priority to me, and I did not want to overload Kevin with too many suggestions at once. Anyways, here it is. My new suggestion: consistent damage for Hale.

To achieve this, two things must be changed:
(1. The damage on the Boss' weapons needs be set to +200% rather than 210%
(2. Damage spread needs to be turned off

With these two things, the damage on the Boss' weapon will be a set 195 damage. This has several different advantages. First off and mainly, everybody knows what they are capable of. A demoman with 4 heads knows for sure that he can take a hit. A Soldier at full health knows the same. Everybody knows exactly when they can or cannot take a blow. With damage spread enabled it is always a gamble. In fact, with damage spread enabled Hale could even get as low as 174, which could cause unoverhealed Pyros or Demos to survive a hit. These things make for an inconsistent and unpredictable game, and in my opinion it would be much better if with these two things applied the damage of the Boss' weapon is set to 195.

Thank you for listening, and stay tuned for my next suggestion.

Evo

 

[Kevin]

problem is then if we set the damage higher it will be also higher from other classes, i talked with dart mann and in vsh its not possible because the boss dont has his own config but in ff2 it would work

 

[Ron]

Why not just recompile the tf2items attributes inside the VSH code and just recompile it?

 

[PartyCow]

Woahwoahwoah, hold on...
I really do HATE when hale deals fixed damage, and then it being a regular critical hit damage.
This will make the game A WHOLE LOT more difficult for the hale, as a heavy being healed would take 3-5 hits to kill, soldiers would take 3 etc.

Also I kinda do enjoy this 'not-sure-if-you-survive-or-die' element of being hit by hale.
So in my opinion it should remain with spread and default damage...

Edit: Also it got 210% and not 200% for a reason, that being the base of 210% is 201/202, making it able to kill a soldier not using the battalions backup...

 

[EvoWarrior5]

problem is then if we set the damage higher it will be also higher from other classes, i talked with dart mann and in vsh its not possible because the boss dont has his own config but in ff2 it would work

This is bull, really.
In some other servers, including my old regular community, it was 200% and there was no damage spread. Why would the damage of everybody increase if Hale's damage gets reduced to +200%, but not when it was set to 210%? That doesn't make sense.

@ Party Cow, it will really not make anything harder for Hale. If anything it will only make it easier for some of the players, and there is a diffrence there. If there is a fully overhealed Heavy with the new damage he will consistently have to receive 4 hits and die on the 4th hit (unless Hale was pushed away temporarily and the Medic would have healed him up a bit, then it would be 5 or maybe 6 at most). Even if Hale gets lucky with the damage spread now, he would STILL have to hit 4 times, because 3 times 200-210 damage is just not enough when the Heavy is still being healed up.

You like it when it is unpredictable? How can you possibly like being Demoknight and getting 4 well-deserved heads, then hit Hale AGAIN for a slight overheal, and then you get hit once by him and you STILL die immediately, no questions asked, even after all the effort you put into surviving one hit. How can you possibly like this?

Then, imagine you are Engineer and you've got a level 3 sentry. Then Hale comes and you expect it will take Hale two hits to kill your Sentry (and who would NOT think like this, a lvl 3 Sentry has 216 goddamn health), suddenly he kills it in one punch. Again, how can you like this? I just don't see it.

A Soldier should not have to use the Backup to survive a hit, really. Kicker here is, even if he's wearing the Backup now, he can still die in one hit.

If the base damage does not go from 210% to 200% then that's mostly fine, really. But damage spread makes the game more unpredictable and for the examples I listed above, this is NOT a good thing. This is the prime reason why I am not demo more often. Because even if I hit him five times he often only has to hit me once to finish the job. This is unfair and just feels stupid.

Even if you argue that it WOULD become a lot (?) more difficult for Hale if the damage is set, what would it matter? Being Hale is easy enough, mostly. The only reason so many Hales die is because we have the goomba stomp which is an effective weapon. Hale SHOULD be pretty difficult to play, otherwise what's the challenge in being him? I do not even Rage anymore.
I will stop on this aspect though, as I already have a suggestion for this later on, although that one would be a lot more difficult to actally implement into the game.

 

[Kevin]

i talked with dart mann and he said it is not possible but you can ask him too if you dont believe me
but it would be not funny if the hale can destory everything with 1 hit like you said with the sentry.
the only thing that is shit is that you must hit the demo 2 times

 

[EvoWarrior5]

@ the Demo part, it's not really unfair though. Fair enough, they already have a shield so they can already tank a punch there, but what sucks is that sometimes you do die and sometimes you don't. I think that if you managed to get 4 heads that you should be rewarded with being able to take a punch. You are supposed to be rewarded with speed and health when you get heads, but the health doesn't do much if Hale just hits you for over 210 damage. It can only help if you do not have 4 heads yet but he hits you for 180 or less. But that is also unfair imo, as you weren't able to get enough heads but still you survive because of chance.

If anything is annoying for some, it is if the game is left up to chance. The game is supposed to be about skill yet the damage spread decides who lives and who dies. This is not right in my opinion.

 

[Kevin]

hm.. well maybe in the next update of the vsh plugin is something like that included.
i check later if someone suggested that like you

 

[PartyCow]

Then, imagine you are Engineer and you've got a level 3 sentry. Then Hale comes and you expect it will take Hale two hits to kill your Sentry (and who would NOT think like this, a lvl 3 Sentry has 216 goddamn health), suddenly he kills it in one punch. Again, how can you like this? I just don't see it.

A level 3 sentry at full hp always takes 2 hit to kill with spread...

 

[DartMann]

In short terms. Your server is running the newest version of vsh. This has the damage set to 210%, where earlier versions was 200. Other servers run that version because of how the damage is. Along with that, the damage is fixed there is no damage spread on melee weapons unless running eyelander, due to damage gained via head-count. If you really want the damage to go back to 200% then ask Kvn to get an older version, but then say goodbye to easter-demo-bunny boss and various bug-fixes. Personally it's fine where it is and should not really need to be tampered with.


EDIT: It seems that only the longer ranged weapons gain a variable amount of damage gain/loss, basically all swords used by the demo due to the attribute of longer hitboxes for them, this also applies to hale since the boss weapon's also have this attribute, but if you really want this to not happen then it can be easily turned off, but then hales hitboxes for weapons would be either too short or bug out more than it already does.

 

[Saxton Hale]

tried to read but your profile picture had me in its power

 

[EvoWarrior5]

Even if this version by default has damage spread on, surely there must be somebody who is capable enough with coding change this to off witout affecting the range?

 

[PartyCow]

Even if this version by default has damage spread on, surely there must be somebody who is capable enough with coding change this to off witout affecting the range?

Pretty sure there are but most people don't do that kind of stuff for free...