clarify rule? (1 Viewer)

[Dragnoros]

Nice that there are rules. It's nice that they are also enforced and admins are also running around on the server. But I think it is important that it is clarified when what is.

I don't want to revoke the appeal, etc. It's just my opinion that's included here
https://bans.panda-community.com/index.php?p=commslist&searchText=Dragnoros&Submit=Search

first scenario:

Here's what happens: multiple people bhop through a certain part of the map very quickly. so death ran after them... didn't use every trap (maybe he was overwhelmed or didn't know where they all ran to). End of story... he stood in front of the first ones, tried to kill them and the admins saw that as targeting/favouring. How do I know.. I overtook people just before the end and death tried to kill me (i was first in the moment)

The stupid thing is... i do the same Thing.
- I run after a bhopper and ignore the other people in the time to get the bhopper.
- I sometimes let 1-2 people through to get a group.
- whatever happens. I have to stay with 2-3 people who are ahead and give other people a "free run" up to a certain point, so the 2-3 cant rush anymore
= i should see a permament ban for targeting tomorrow

You have to think about it, how do you want to get all of them as a death (which is also your normal task in Deathrun).
-> not every card is made for bhop and for the amount of people and you have the ass card as death
-> some traps are useless against bhoppers (I'll get to that below).

If admins tell me now: that's wrong, the way I play it as death...
->How am I supposed to get a rusher then?
->How am I supposed to get 30 people with some 10-20 traps?

In the end: Admin executed/killed the player and warned him and I spoke up because according to the admin it was targeting and I don't confirm or see that (reasons above). He said something like "shut up Dragnoros" and then came my last sentence that it's still wrong.After this i got ganged. Even other players don't see it that way. I don't want to say: bhop out!. That thing is pretty important to be able to counter good Deaths at all.

(Chatdialog)

2022-09-14 22:49:34

A s t e r

But normally right, if someone is bhopping, he's half way through the map like in cocainum by the time the game starts

Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun

dr_backrooms_v2a

2022-09-14 22:49:19	☠Dragnoros, der Wächter	because what you call targeting is wrong.	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:49:08	Scorp	!nominate	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:49:01	Scorp	lmao	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:48:46	David S. 170	lmao	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:48:22	☠Dragnoros, der Wächter	the firsts (the fast player)	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:48:22	Scorp	Pyro is BAAAD! Heavy 2022-	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:48:08	☠Dragnoros, der Wächter	this isnt favour... i do the same. not using all traps . trying to kill the first/bhopper	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:46:59	☠Dragnoros, der Wächter	yeah i didnt saw it too	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a

2022-09-14 22:46:49	Aquilesorganigrama	rtv	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:46:47	Nox Equites	i wasn't favoring no one	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:46:34	f40815	(Team) rtv	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:46:28	David S. 170	who was he favouring	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:46:26	☠Dragnoros, der Wächter	i was first...	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:46:19	Asuka		Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:46:16	☠Dragnoros, der Wächter	why	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:46:13	David S. 170	why	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:44:05	f40815	(Team) rtv	Panda-Community.com #09 | Deathrun	dr_backrooms_v2a
2022-09-14 22:43:59	Almoghed	!fp

Unfortunately, admin messages are not displayed in between.


2nd Szenario: skipping traps:

Death: Noire
Admin guess the same like in the first scenario

I've been warned and killed for skipping traps. Absolutely correct when I jump over a trap or walk past sideways with bhop. But how can I skip a trap if it has a time delay and I can just bhop through it (practically within the radius of the trap).
But the thing is: I was surprised that I could just jump through the traps without being stopped and I also wrote that I was surprised Noire wrote afterwards that Dragnoros skipped. Next second I was killed by the admin.
But I had to discuss with the admin that I didn't skip anything and that's why the death was completely wrong, but the admin wasn't really interested.

I couldn't find the chat. (sadly i dont know the name in the moment, but its the map with the can as a secret


3rd szenario: Skipping??? Minigame

Admin XXX:
"skipping varries from map to map and not everything is considered a skip so best you play maybe a month or 2 before you make your statement of what is skipping and not alot is changed in 2 years and i dunno where you played before this so"

I want to say right away. I still stick to it, even if it's not breaking the rules. I'm also happy to provide the complete message history here if the admin allows it

Map Playstation Johny minigame. I jumped on the conveyor belt to Johny boss on the conveyor belt to prevent certain things.

Dragnoros:
then you also know why I am writing to you... because of the kill of playstation.

you could have said something. then I would have gone in. The 2 thing is. I am from 2019 (with a long break).

The thing is, back then we did it the same way I did, so the Johny boss only had one focus to make it easier with the bomb. Also when in the 3 form where he only throws bombs, we still had a backup, so that if everyone died in it, someone could run in and possibly still press the switch. so exactly the same as the first boss fight. I won't be doing it anymore, but I just wanted to clear that up because I'm not going to break any rules on purpose^^.

I don't even think I broke any rules there... feel free to teach me otherwise.

But the thing is that you do it on the same map, even the first boss. Why is it allowed in one place or not in another place? Generally asked: why does every map always have new rules, so to speak, and other rules can actually be ignored. (according to the statement of the admin?) trap skipping is clarified.

Skipping (as already explained on topic 1)
Players who use bhop to either jump over, around or in any way skip the trap entirely for BLU to have zero chance of killing the player(s) is skipping.



I like to discuss, especially when I don't see something as right (like the things mentioned above). Everybody makes mistakes. On purpose or not is another matter. But I think it's wrong if you come to me with the wrong arguments or better yet, none at all (best example: I first had to find out what was going on with the "skipping traps" because I wasn't really told anything)

i know my english is not the best.(actually awful).
If something is strange or otherwise. Just ask. I'll try to rephrase else then.

 

[Dragnoros]

Fredo wanted a short version

1. Scenario: Admin penalized incorrectly in my opinion and reply/discussion was rejected/ignored. Then gag appeal.

2. Scenario : Was warned for skipping although it wasn't skipping because trap had delay. Admin was not interested in this matter.

3. Scenario: extending the rules to a map, because each map has different rules. Skipping without a trap or anything else according to admin

in general: According to my experience, rules are now being skillfully expanded or changed in order to somehow keep the right. Contradictions and discussions are hardly tolerated.

 

[An0n]

So I will only be talking about your "scenario 1", as it is the only one I was present in:

1. I was in the lead in the entire round alongside Lichowski, just me and him, so you couldn't have been baiting traps all the way in the lead.

2. The BLU player in question (death) had killed some people at the start using traps (2 or 3, I believe) which can be activated, making the round a deathrun by default. Activating traps and killing people with them means you cannot call a free run after that as it would be considered favouring/targeting.

3. Death continued to activate traps normally for a bit without much success (be it them being a new player or whatever reason). Up until the first teleport in the map dr_backrooms everything went well until I realised death had started wasting traps (activating them with nobody around, I want to reiterate myself on point 1 now as it was only Lichowski and me in the lead and no one else was in front of us).

4. I warned death twice to stop wasting traps to no avail, which is unfair for the people who died at the start to the traps as death gave up and wasted all traps, ultimately giving a freerun when they had killed people with traps at the beginning (this is not allowed and it falls under the favouring/targeting rule)

Now, with all these points being down, you still came around and started complaining about a warning which was not even directed at you.

Most admins, if not all, in the DR team have had to deal with your shenanigans in the past, and you constantly doubting and complaining about our work is both frustrating and annoying at times when we have tried to be the most lenient towards players breaking the rules and simply trying to create a nice gaming environment.

For this very reason, I asked you to "shut up" because it is always a complaint from you whenever we act upon anything at all. You ignored this and continued to say we are in the wrong, so I gagged you to avoid further disturbances and behaviours which may interfere with any other staff members' actions in the gameservers.

As well as you like to give feedback, I think you should also take some constructive one, have a nice night.

 

[Dragnoros]

1.i was first by the last trap and directly behind you (last 2-3 traps). you was in my view. (last trap was 100% normal. rather tries to catch a rusher somehow).
2. Nox Equites was death. he didnt call free.
3. ---
4. he misjudged the timings of the last ones. (He did it for me too, which almost worked.) He included the bhop because probably a lot of traps have delays. (Unfortunately I haven't seen all of them yet, but a few). but most have delay or small radius. You have no other option with bhop than to take risks with such traps.

idc if admins like me or not. They are also welcome to focus me and hit me with a stick for every little mistake.

I only discuss if something is unclear or I think it's wrong. A few days ago I tricked a trap with bhop and was killed by the admin. I accepted it because, in hindsight, it was wrong. But when I hear things like "it's always been like this" without there being any rule for it. Then of course I'll write something. One more thing is that I don't mean everything literally as I write this, I mean it in a general way. But that's my problem with the English. I'm not stupid enough to give an admin an order... what the case in waterrun.

Let me guess. then you weren't the admin who killed me because of the "skipping".

btw thanks for the answer/reaction.

 

[Solar]

But I had to discuss with the admin that I didn't skip anything and that's why the death was completely wrong, but the admin wasn't really interested.

Death said to the admin slay that man as a joke like most ppl do on the server you were also slayed after the round ended, I looked at the trap in, question and it doesnt have a wall that stops ppl for some reason so it looked like you did some shenanigans which on my part may have been a mistake but it was after the round so you didnt lose anything there. also i said no exploiting plz not skipping You also didnt ask after to clarrify on the specifics as far i know.

I want to say right away. I still stick to it, even if it's not breaking the rules. I'm also happy to provide the complete message history here if the admin allows it

I wrote this to you personaly so keep it that way next time

3rd szenario: Skipping??? Minigame

Like i told you in the PMs before you have to activly participate in the minigame its a team effort you need to put into it not having some ppl exploit on a threadmill waiting outside the mini until "you are a backup" incase stuff goes wrong i slayed you 1 time few days prior to it a d then days after for the same thing and i told you again what you did wrong.

But the thing is that you do it on the same map, even the first boss. Why is it allowed in one place or not in another place? Generally asked: why does every map always have new rules, so to speak, and other rules can actually be ignored. (according to the statement of the admin?) trap skipping is clarified.

Also i explained this that every map is made different and some places can be "aka skipped" since you can reach them by just jumping to from A to B.
We dont add any "new rules" nor do we ignore them its just how some maps are made you wil see it on many other maps where you get punished for leaving a minigame or exploiting.
Maps vary from old to new so the rules is applied different but still not much changed from how it was made.
Like i said before it takes a pretty decent amount of time to really know each map and how its supposed to be played not everyone learns it from day 1

I like to discuss, especially when I don't see something as right (like the things mentioned above). Everybody makes mistakes. On purpose or not is another matter. But I think it's wrong if you come to me with the wrong arguments or better yet, none at all (best example: I first had to find out what was going on with the "skipping traps" because I wasn't really told anything)

You could always ask the staff present ingame or at the forums like you asked me to clarrify where the rules are and what the skipping rule is applied to.
People are always free to discuss stuff about the maps but don't tell us what is right or wrong when we handle stuff ingame we know the gamemode better than some so it comes over as you know it better than us Refrain from doing that in the future to avoid issues.


Feel free to reply or add some stuff to this or Pm me if you feel like thats the safer option for you
Gn

 

[Dragnoros]

1st thing I think it's my fault, but we're talking about 2 different things (I described it badly)

-> it was after the server crash and I think you are talking about the executions before the crash.
-> the only one executed at the moment was me.
-> It wasn't after the end of the round because I had just finished first. (not even selected a minigame or anything)
-> the round was actually still going because the other people were 3-4 traps behind me and not all of them had been triggered yet.

The thing that excited me more was. Noire writes skip and I was executed after what felt like 0.1 seconds. Also the sentence "I will watch you!" was definitely not a joke or fun. I don't know if you were the admin, but you can't skip the map because the traps go all the way. You can't go over, under or sideways, you can only go through the middle

Sadly couldnt find a name but i will use a video which i used for a report), it wasnt this trap. it was the last 2-3 traps which i skipped? exaclty the TNT trap...

2. thing: ok. I need to accept this
3./4. thing: I will accept that you should only inform a bit more, or see that he has seen it. Which I then wanted to discuss with you privately. Just the statement: "It's always been like this" without telling me that it's an "bad" exploit (not skip!) for you, I found quite strange...
5. thing: to the regret of all admins, I will also continue ^^.