Declined Ban Cell Wars/Meatgrinder during LR rounds (1 Viewer)

[Sunsob]

Hello,

Currently the rules about cell wars/meatgrinder are as follows

Cell Wars is where the warden will enable friendly fire and ask you to kill your cellmates. You do not have to kill your cellmates unless the Warden specifically tells you to.
Cell Wars cannot be played if there were 4 or more Guards alive at the start of the round.
Cell Wars cannot be played as an LR.
If the cell doors open during cell wars it’s implied that Prisoners will stay inside of their cells.
---
Meatgrinder is a minigame where all Prisoners are in one (deemed) confined space that is not within the playable area of any minigame unless stated by a custom LR and FF is turned on.
Just like cell wars, meatgrinder cannot be played if there were 4 or more Guards alive at the start of the round.
Meatgrinder can also be played as an LR.

Within these rules there's nothing about LR rounds such as tiny mann, low gravity and others, which, unless I missed something, means cell wars/meatgrinder can be played during these rounds. This to me seems unfair to the person who got LR last round because only a few will be able to play with the effect during the round, worse, they might not be able to play with the effect themself because they died during cell wars.

So my suggestion is as follows: Ban cell wars/meatgrinder during LR rounds such as tiny mann, low gravity, etc.

 

[Sunsob]

Correction: I mean any valid LR round that isn't a freeday
Also the poll allows you to vote for multiple options, so you can vote to ban both

 

[Shamrock]

ts post pmo

 

[BritishMafia]

the one blue against 26 reds that cant do cell wars because its crits day:

 

[Sunsob]

the one blue against 26 reds that cant do cell wars because its crits day:

tbf crit day with one blu is barely possible with any amount of reds

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

As much as I’d want this to be a thing, the major problem is that it really depends on the LR on whether or not banning cell wars/Meatgrinder regardless of number of BLUs would be unreasonable.

Some, like Tiny Mann day, Low Gravity, and All Class day it wouldn’t be too hindering.

But others, like Melee Only day and All Crits Day, would be severely hindering to 3 BLUs vs. 26 REDs if Cell Wars and/or Meatgrinder were banned on those days.

Also, why give options to ban just one of the two? They’re very similar, in fact almost identical in function. You might as well either ban both or neither.

 

[_Black]

As much as I’d want this to be a thing, the major problem is that it really depends on the LR on whether or not banning cell wars/Meatgrinder regardless of number of BLUs would be unreasonable.

Some, like Tiny Mann day, Low Gravity, and All Class day it wouldn’t be too hindering.

But others, like Melee Only day and All Crits Day, would be severely hindering to 3 BLUs vs. 26 REDs if Cell Wars and/or Meatgrinder were banned on those days.

Also, why give options to ban just one of the two? They’re very similar, in fact almost identical in function. You might as well either ban both or neither.

you can make multiple votes

 

[_Black]

Actually im gonna vote to ban meatgrinder when any lr is active except for meatgrinder as an LR itself. But only meatgrinder.

 

[whale heavy]

I dont like meatgrinder very much

 

[solid soirb]

meatgrinder is a solution for bad wardens to not have to play the game

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Easy no.
If Blus are that out numbered, that's exactly what cell wars/meatgrinder are for.
The LR buff on top of those numbers is more reason for cell wars/meatgrinder to be valid, as to best allow for the blus to have a round resulting in LR given.
If you don't want cell wars or meatgrinder, join blu. It's a core balancing factor of the game mode.
Complete nonissue, and I don't want to enforce some weird complex ban.

 

[BritishMafia]

tbf crit day with one blu is barely possible with any amount of reds

you get my point tho right? doesnt matter what lr it is, imagine your only hope at actually getting to do a round being cell wars, but you cant because mr nerd emoji is screaming in chat
"ERM acktually there is an lr that doesnt effect anything, so you cant do cell wars!!!!"

 

[Bananawastaken]

Editing the poll so it’s a blanket ban rather than choosing between one or the other.
This is being done to preserve simplicity and be consistent, considering that meatgrinder and cell wars are both categorised similarly in the rules.

@_Black @Ninya @NyanBat @soirb you guys are the only ones who voted for just one option. Update your vote to reflect the poll changes pls.

 

[solid soirb]

Editing the poll so it’s a blanket ban rather than choosing between one or the other.
This is being done to preserve simplicity and be consistent, considering that meatgrinder and cell wars are both categorised similarly in the rules.

@_Black @Ninya @NyanBat @soirb you guys are the only ones who voted for just one option. Update your vote to reflect the poll changes pls.

ruined my life

 

[Sym]

voting yes cuz i dont like dying to my cellmate when my lr is mass fortnite trivia

 

[Kron]

Easy no.
If Blus are that out numbered, that's exactly what cell wars/meatgrinder are for.
The LR buff on top of those numbers is more reason for cell wars/meatgrinder to be valid, as to best allow for the blus to have a round resulting in LR given.
If you don't want cell wars or meatgrinder, join blu. It's a core balancing factor of the game mode.
Complete nonissue, and I don't want to enforce some weird complex ban.

I completely agree with this statement: this is a nonissue and a core balancing feature to deal with the fact that there are low guards. It also lends to it being an experience thing too- some wardens are confident enough in their abilities to not use it but some have to so that failrounds do not occur.

Added to the fact that this will certainly result in an increase in illegal cell wars/meatgrinders for quite some time, makes me quite opposed to it from an enforcement standpoint.

 

[MoonRise]

How about adding a minimum requirement for reds? Like how Blu needs 3 or fewer to do cell wars.
I suggest making it 9 reds or more to be allowed to do cell wars

 

[_Black]

Editing the poll so it’s a blanket ban rather than choosing between one or the other.
This is being done to preserve simplicity and be consistent, considering that meatgrinder and cell wars are both categorised similarly in the rules.

@_Black @Ninya @NyanBat @soirb you guys are the only ones who voted for just one option. Update your vote to reflect the poll changes pls.

i only want meatgrinder gone though, because with cellwars there are still a few reds left

 

[Dr. Meatloaf]

I really like this suggestion for numerous reasons. I want to respond to the main criticism which seems to be that this rule change will disadvantage blus too much. I disagree with the idea that we shouldn’t implement this because of balance problems. In my view, the majority of cases it won’t matter whether cell wars is done for most of these LR’s in terms of balancing.
I think we’ve examined the issue of cellwars before and basically determined that the BLU disadvantage is more based on the ratio of reds to blus than anything. Seems like some people in this post are bringing this up also. There have been numerous suggestions to change the rule on when it’s permissible to do cellwars to instead be based on ratios, but it’s been denied simply because (in my view) many people playing jailbreak don’t understand math. Also the amount to which cellwars actually helps the blus varies a lot per map. MLCastle has 6 (or 5) cells so celllwars could potentially eliminate a lot of reds. However maps like volcano which has something like 20 cells, cellwars isn’t going to do that much even with a full red team.
So anyway basically in my eyes most rounds are either going to fall into two categories. The first is that blus are going to die anyway without cellwars because the ratio of reds to blus is too high and cellwars won’t really help anyway because the map has too many cells. Or because even with a fair ratio of reds to blus the LR is something like RTD day, or crits which is just going to cause a failround anyway. The second category is where the round will be successful regardless of whether cellwars is done or not because the ratio of blus to reds is fine anyway since there’s not that many people online and the LR is something friendly to blus.
The only reason that cellwars is necessary for balancing purposes is if it would actually make a difference in the outcome of a round which in my eyes is a pretty slim number of rounds. Don’t get me wrong it happens, but I don’t think it’s the majority of rounds. Especially since the fact that LR was given last round usually indicates that BLU team is doing fine. Also even if there is a failround, it’s fine since that means no LR was given and blus can just do cellwars next round if they really need to.
From what I’ve witnessed people on the server just seem to do cellwars maliciously in a lot of cases and even seem more likely to do it when there’s an LR as a way of annoying the reds. So I agree, let’s stop doing cellwars during LR rounds and let people enjoy the round. If it results in a few extra failrounds, so be it.

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

I really like this suggestion for numerous reasons. I want to respond to the main criticism which seems to be that this rule change will disadvantage blus too much. I disagree with the idea that we shouldn’t implement this because of balance problems. In my view, the majority of cases it won’t matter whether cell wars is done for most of these LR’s in terms of balancing.
I think we’ve examined the issue of cellwars before and basically determined that the BLU disadvantage is more based on the ratio of reds to blus than anything. Seems like some people in this post are bringing this up also. There have been numerous suggestions to change the rule on when it’s permissible to do cellwars to instead be based on ratios, but it’s been denied simply because (in my view) many people playing jailbreak don’t understand math. Also the amount to which cellwars actually helps the blus varies a lot per map. MLCastle has 6 (or 5) cells so celllwars could potentially eliminate a lot of reds. However maps like volcano which has something like 20 cells, cellwars isn’t going to do that much even with a full red team.
So anyway basically in my eyes most rounds are either going to fall into two categories. The first is that blus are going to die anyway without cellwars because the ratio of reds to blus is too high and cellwars won’t really help anyway because the map has too many cells. Or because even with a fair ratio of reds to blus the LR is something like RTD day, or crits which is just going to cause a failround anyway. The second category is where the round will be successful regardless of whether cellwars is done or not because the ratio of blus to reds is fine anyway since there’s not that many people online and the LR is something friendly to blus.
The only reason that cellwars is necessary for balancing purposes is if it would actually make a difference in the outcome of a round which in my eyes is a pretty slim number of rounds. Don’t get me wrong it happens, but I don’t think it’s the majority of rounds. Especially since the fact that LR was given last round usually indicates that BLU team is doing fine. Also even if there is a failround, it’s fine since that means no LR was given and blus can just do cellwars next round if they really need to.
From what I’ve witnessed people on the server just seem to do cellwars maliciously in a lot of cases and even seem more likely to do it when there’s an LR as a way of annoying the reds. So I agree, let’s stop doing cellwars during LR rounds and let people enjoy the round. If it results in a few extra failrounds, so be it.

I AM NOT READING ALL THAT