Completed #09 - A Specific Trap Rule Change Suggestion (1 Viewer)

[☁ Spaceblob11 ☁]

Hi,

Before we continue, please read the below:

Vote no if you think it should NOT be considered a skip

Vote yes if you think it should be considered a skip.

ty, also if you vote yes, it should be considered as a skip, please give a reason in the comments as to why.


Ok, with that out of the way, let's continue:

I and basically almost every other dr regular thinks that the 5th trap (Lazer Boards) on nighttown, should not be considered skipping if you jump from the 2 boxes over the board. I say this as I have seen MULTIPLE people being slayed and banned for doing this. I do not think it is fair as it should not be considered a skip. This is because, if you do bhop over the boards, and the trap is activated, you will still die to the lazers. Proof of this is shown in the video below. Furthermore, the answer of, "It is a skip because it provides an unfair advantage to the other reds (in that they need to break it to catch up)", just does not make sense to me. I get that it does put the other people who are unaware of how to bhop in a disadvantageous spot as they need to break the board to cross, but, 'Providing an unfair advantage over the other reds in your team' is not what classifies a skip. I'd say it's more of a rush sort of thing since you die nonetheless if it is activated.

To quote the bhop rules, a skip is classified as,

"Players who use bhop and manage to jump entirely over or around the trap in a way that the player on the blu team can't catch you on it is skipping. Meaning you can use it to gain a certain amount of speed, strafing to trick death into activating the trap, go in and out of the trap area and even rush the trap (will be explained later on).

In other words, even if we’re talking about a really good player on the blu team, with really good reflexes, and he’s able to activate the trap once a bhopper is going over or around it but can’t catch him on the trap, then it’s skipping."

The rules clearly state that skipping is when a player uses bhop to jump entirely *around* the trap in a way that the player on blu, cannot kill you with it. It also states that you can use it to gain a certain amount of speed to strafe and trick death or even *rush the trap*.

This trap and bhopping across the boards should be considered rushing over skipping in my opinion since the rules CLEARLY state,


"Rushing:

Simply stating, when a player is bhopping and goes through a trap, but in a way that the players on the blu team are able to get you on the trap, then it’s called a rush.

If you bhop through and land on the trap area (making you vulnerable to it), the blu player is then able to catch you on it (if they activate it on time). This is not skipping, and thus players are allowed to do this."

Since if the blue player activates it on time, they are able to catch you, this should not be considered a skip, and thus, not bannable nor slayable.

The trap I am talking about is in the video below, where you can see what I mean by you die anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWsLf4yIYkY

At 0:33 You can clearly see when he jumps over the trap without the lazers being activated and then at 0:44, where he attempts the same but this time, when the trap IS activated, and he dies. Thus proving, this is not a skip, as you do die, nonetheless.

This poll will close after 14 days.

 

[sunstep]

I agree with this, to sum up everything in this thread, Spaceblob says that skipping in this server is considered as using bhop to avoid a trap, so using bhop to prevent death from killing you with a trap. I've recorded this video where I ent_fired the trap while I was about to jump over the boards. And it clearly shows that I die anyways. So according to the rules it self, this is not considered skipping and all bans / warnings for this are supposed to be invalid. It would only have counted as skipping if you could have used bhop to somehow get past the lasers that they can't hit you, but in this case that is impossible. Which confirms this is not skipping.

Besides that I also wanted to mention that it might be on purpose that jumping over the boards is possible, believe me I know this map. There are playerclips everywhere. If the map maker wanted to prevent jumping over it there would have been a playerclip (invisible wall) above the wooden boards. It's also no coincidence that there are boxes very close to the wooden boards.

 

[☁ Spaceblob11 ☁]

Since I cannot add to my original post as 15 mins have passed by making me no longer able to edit it, I will just add my message here.

I seem to have forgotten to give proof of someone, imo, getting unjustly banned for this trap. Here is proof of that in the form of @Magilec 's ban: https://www.panda-community.com/threads/magilec-ban-appeal.25005/#post-119846

Yes, there was also this Roblox trap he apparently skipped, but nighttown boards seemed to be listed as the main reason to ban seeing that he 'skipped' them twice and was seemingly slayed, warned, and eventually banned for 'skipping' trap. Also, even if the ban was mostly due to the roblox skip, I dont see why this nighttown trap was also listed as a reason for the ban.

 

[Madact]

Warning: I am not part of the deathrun team anymore so I have no idea what they are enforcing now. What I say below may no longer apply

The whole point of when I proposed the skipping trap rule was to stop people going around the traps meaning they could not be killed by that trap.
If a trap has all ready been activated, it was fine to 'skip' as there is no longer a trap to kill you. That trap is no longer a trap so you cant skip a trap that no longer exists. (This apparently isn't a thing anymore...???)

Back then bhop was about height. You could skip a lot of dr_wintervalley at the time particularly at the cablecars. You could bhop off the metal....tower? To the top of the cable car. You'd then bounce on the trees. Death would complain that they couldn't do anything and death was right. What's the point of deathrun if death has no chance of killing you.

Bhop is now about speed. Honestly I have no idea how you'd even catch a skilled bhopper now. The only thing that stops them are chance traps. Yes you can still get them with timed button traps but your timing would have to be amazing. Maps are more complex now though rather than straight lines so the breaking a bhop speed is frequent...On some / most maps

The trap that you show in the video in laser beams that come down from top to bottom. Even if you jump over the blanks you can still get caught by the trap. Not skipping in my opinion unless I'm missing something.

Really most of the issues would be fixed with stripper which @sunstep is currently doing. We apply them and 'skipping' with bhop could be a thing of the past.

Either that or just yeetus deletus the rule from dr1

TLDR: Those that use bhop to NOT BE CAUGHT IN TRAP BY GOING AROUND / UNDER / OVER = rulebreaker. Those that use bhop to speed THROUGH the trap(touching the ground of trap is important) = veri gud player 10/ 10 . Those that use bhop IN a trap to avoid whatever is coming = honestly i'd allow that but apparently it's wrong.

 

[Rurikooo]

Sure, +1.

 

[sunstep]

I actually don't see why any rules have to be changed here, there is no specific rule regarding this trap and jumping over the wooden boards doesn't count to the no skipping rule, the only thing that needs to happen is making sure no admins ban / warn for it. But there is something I have to mention and that is that there is a reason the wooden boards exist, and that is to delay rushers to give death some time to catch players with unactivated traps. But unless there is a rule against rushing, jumping over the wooden boards should be allowed nonetheless.

 

[Madact]

I've told the deathrun team no longer to enforce this as bhop skipping trap. You can jump over the planks, activated or not. There was a mention about it being 'exploiting' but I'm just going to put it down as a map design that didn't have bhopping in mind. We don't want players being banned over 'exploiting' for jumping over the blanks.