Completed [JB] Reword the rule about going into vents (1 Viewer)

[Nergal Nergalton]

I'd like to adjust this rule:

Prisoners are allowed to break any props, items or windows on the map including vents leading to armory unless instructed otherwise. If Prisoners go through any of these, or are found in an area which directly leads to armory they will be KOS.

Seems fine at first glance, but I personally find it a little too loose. You could make the argument this rule could be used to kill any RED going through any sort of secret pathway, regardless of whether or not it leads to armory and/or has an ammo secret. Especially on freedays, a trigger happy guard could choose to try and kill any RED they see break or go through any secret pathway. My proposed redefining of the rule is this:

Prisoners are allowed to break any props, items or windows on the map, including vents leading to armory unless instructed otherwise. If Prisoners go into any vents connecting to and leading directly into armory they will be KOS.

My proposed redefining removes the "go through any of these" part referring to props, items, and windows that don't lead to armory, thus eliminating any confusion or vagueness with this rule.

UPDATE: Krook's proposed redefining in his response is what I feel it should be updated to if this suggestion passes, to reflect ammo packs as well.

 

[SirKrookodile]

This can't work as it stands. A red can break a breakable that leads directly to ammo, sit in the breakable in such a way that they're not touching the ammo. And they wouldn't be kos. For example the breakable at soccer on MLCastle, the Breakable behind boxgame on Spacejail, etc etc.
While yes the current ruling is absolutely flawed, as it's technically a kill order to tell reds to go through a breakable, like ordering reds to go through the breakable towards climb on supermario.
This current draft of the ruling won't work.
I would like to propose this ruling as an alternative.

"Prisoners are allowed to break any props, items or windows on the map, including vents leading to armory unless instructed otherwise. If Prisoners enter any breakable that connects to or directly leads to either armory or ammo pack(s) they will be KOS."

This prevents any technicalities with reds claiming freekill because the breakable they were in "wasn't a vent" even though it still leads to armory. And allows blues to kill reds for trying to access any ammo through a breakable.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Pretty easy yes surprisingly. This was something not at all on my radar, but you make a fair point.

The ammo packs breakables being KOS from Krook is a solid no from me. Don't wanna introduce "Oh he opened a way to get ammo that's KOS" or "He's by the thing so he's KOS", seems likely to introduce many nitpicky scenarios.

Keep it simple, but add what Krook said with any breakable that leads into armory.
"If Prisoners enter any breakable that connects to or directly leads to armory they will be KOS."
Shrimple as.

 

[SirKrookodile]

Pretty easy yes surprisingly. This was something not at all on my radar, but you make a fair point.

The ammo packs breakables being KOS from Krook is a solid no from me. Don't wanna introduce "Oh he opened a way to get ammo that's KOS" or "He's by the thing so he's KOS", seems likely to introduce many nitpicky scenarios.

Keep it simple, but add what Krook said with any breakable that leads into armory.
"If Prisoners enter any breakable that connects to or directly leads to armory they will be KOS."
Shrimple as.

I mean you're saying blues will try extend the ruling past what it actually is. In both those scenarios you mentioned, blues would not be able to kill them. It's if they enter and enter exclusively. If any blue was to kill for either of the two reasons you mentioned they would be eligible to be reported and punished for freekilling. I don't think it will be nitpicked. If you enter a breakable which contains ammo you can be shot, but exclusively if you enter it. And I think that's just common sense tbh.

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

This can't work as it stands. A red can break a breakable that leads directly to ammo, sit in the breakable in such a way that they're not touching the ammo. And they wouldn't be kos. For example the breakable at soccer on MLCastle, the Breakable behind boxgame on Spacejail, etc etc.
While yes the current ruling is absolutely flawed, as it's technically a kill order to tell reds to go through a breakable, like ordering reds to go through the breakable towards climb on supermario.
This current draft of the ruling won't work.
I would like to propose this ruling as an alternative.

"Prisoners are allowed to break any props, items or windows on the map, including vents leading to armory unless instructed otherwise. If Prisoners enter any breakable that connects to or directly leads to either armory or ammo pack(s) they will be KOS."

This prevents any technicalities with reds claiming freekill because the breakable they were in "wasn't a vent" even though it still leads to armory. And allows blues to kill reds for trying to access any ammo through a breakable.

Good pointing that out. Your updated proposal actually works better.

 

[Kron]

I really like this clarification, easy yes from me.

 

[Expired]

First ever good nergal suggestion

 

[Mehgend]

I go away for one weekend and Nergal starts seriously cooking? Love to see it

 

[Duce]

I was going to ask a silly question about jb_carcerem on the vent that leads to sewers that technically leads to armory but i forgot that there another vent breakable plus other not rebellious pathways, i do like this new rule cause it does question the hopjb vent in boxgame which people have been using to cheat plus get ammo so now it is now implied that if yo use it either way you are kos which alright cause now it can be used in theory as intended for people who actually rebel without the blues noticing

Q: for JB_carcerem can blues camp sewers, cause I've seen a few cases where they either break the breakable or take the secret wall passage to keep people from going down there

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

I was going to ask a silly question about jb_carcerem on the vent that leads to sewers that technically leads to armory but i forgot that there another vent breakable plus other not rebellious pathways, i do like this new rule cause it does question the hopjb vent in boxgame which people have been using to cheat plus get ammo so now it is now implied that if yo use it either way you are kos which alright cause now it can be used in theory as intended for people who actually rebel without the blues noticing

Q: for JB_carcerem can blues camp sewers, cause I've seen a few cases where they either break the breakable or take the secret wall passage to keep people from going down there

If BLUs are camping sewers they're not really being active guards.

 

[Duce]

If BLUs are camping sewers they're not really being active guards.

that is so pog, ty for this revolutionary knowledge LORD NERGAL

 

[shmeed]

I'd like to adjust this rule:

Prisoners are allowed to break any props, items or windows on the map including vents leading to armory unless instructed otherwise. If Prisoners go through any of these, or are found in an area which directly leads to armory they will be KOS.

Seems fine at first glance, but I personally find it a little too loose. You could make the argument this rule could be used to kill any RED going through any sort of secret pathway, regardless of whether or not it leads to armory and/or has an ammo secret. Especially on freedays, a trigger happy guard could choose to try and kill any RED they see break or go through any secret pathway. My proposed redefining of the rule is this:

Prisoners are allowed to break any props, items or windows on the map, including vents leading to armory unless instructed otherwise. If Prisoners go into any vents connecting to and leading directly into armory they will be KOS.

My proposed redefining removes the "go through any of these" part referring to props, items, and windows that don't lead to armory, thus eliminating any confusion or vagueness with this rule.

UPDATE: Krook's proposed redefining in his response is what I feel it should be updated to if this suggestion passes, to reflect ammo packs as well.

i fw this, helps with those freedays where warden doesnt bother to open cells, and with those few niche maps where cell secret doesnt really lead anywhere special and might just be used to get somewhere quicker, i.e. jailfort cell secret

 

[Bananawastaken]

Ooops forgot to handle this thread.

"Prisoners are allowed to break any props, items or windows on the map, including vents leading to armory unless instructed otherwise. If Prisoners enter any breakable that connects to or directly leads to either armory or ammo pack(s) they will be KOS."

Will be the new rule, please give feedback on wording and content.
You have until the end of the month to object.

 

[Bananawastaken]

Rule has been changed