My issue with the "english only" rule (2 Viewers)

[inu]

Please note that this stems entirely from my experiences on Hightower and War3, this does not need to apply to other servers but I'll swallow a broom if it doesn't.

Currently the english only rule only applies to voice communication, which is, in my humble opinion, a huge deal. Never have I seen a language other than english(that I can understand) used for anything but insulting players in their corresponding locale.

Not only does this make administrating 10 times more difficult, it splits the server up like prison gangs. You have the germans talking german and calling everyone on sight a hurensohn, then you have the polish people shouting KURWAAAAA at everything, and the russians silently xaxaxa)ing in the background.
Is this what teamwork is supposed to be? I think not.

As for it making administrating harder, do I need to keep google translator at hand just to make sure people don't have sex with eachother's mothers in russian? No, that's not something anybody should be having to do.


As you can see, this rule only creates barriers and a shit ton of work(and I don't want to imagine how many rulebreakers get away with abrasive language daily simply because nobody understood them).


Therefore I propose english only in both, the text chat and voice communications on at the very least the Hightower server, all though I recommend it to be extended on every server of the Panda Community.
The current set up divides the players on the server and makes our job a metric fuckton harder, much much harder than it needs to be in fact.


"B-but Inu some players may not speak english or a very broken english." Tough luck, bro. TF2 is rated mature and I assume someone who is considered as mature by age had enough basic education to speak english in a simple, communicative manner. A 8 year old won't speak english at all if he is from a non-english-speaking country, but why should we cater towards someone who is NOT supposed to play a MATURE rated game anyway?

I literally see no reason why we should allow languages other than english on the servers, my 2cents, peace out lads.

 

[Kah]

I know two russian guys who are common players on our freak fortress server, I have gagged them several times for insulting people in their russian language (calling everything a "cyka" as soon as they die) and I have also seen people use the word "kurwa" a few times as well.

 

[inu]

I know two russian guys who are common players on our freak fortress server, I have gagged them several times for insulting people in their russian language (calling everything a "cyka" as soon as they die) and I have also seen people use the word "kurwa" a few times as well.

Exactly my point. They alienate the community and give us a ton of work.

 

[violet]

i love you for this.
i hate being on hightower and seeing some random group of czechs speaking czech and not being able to understand/do anything about it.

i really really agree with this.

 

[mermite]

Please note that this stems entirely from my experiences on Hightower and War3, this does not need to apply to other servers but I'll swallow a broom if it doesn't.

Currently the english only rule only applies to voice communication, which is, in my humble opinion, a huge deal. Never have I seen a language other than english(that I can understand) used for anything but insulting players in their corresponding locale.

Not only does this make administrating 10 times more difficult, it splits the server up like prison gangs. You have the germans talking german and calling everyone on sight a hurensohn, then you have the polish people shouting KURWAAAAA at everything, and the russians silently xaxaxa)ing in the background.
Is this what teamwork is supposed to be? I think not.

As for it making administrating harder, do I need to keep google translator at hand just to make sure people don't have sex with eachother's mothers in russian? No, that's not something anybody should be having to do.


As you can see, this rule only creates barriers and a shit ton of work(and I don't want to imagine how many rulebreakers get away with abrasive language daily simply because nobody understood them).


Therefore I propose english only in both, the text chat and voice communications on at the very least the Hightower server, all though I recommend it to be extended on every server of the Panda Community.
The current set up divides the players on the server and makes our job a metric fuckton harder, much much harder than it needs to be in fact.


"B-but Inu some players may not speak english or a very broken english." Tough luck, bro. TF2 is rated mature and I assume someone who is considered as mature by age had enough basic education to speak english in a simple, communicative manner. A 8 year old won't speak english at all if he is from a non-english-speaking country, but why should we cater towards someone who is NOT supposed to play a MATURE rated game anyway?

I literally see no reason why we should allow languages other than english on the servers, my 2cents, peace out lads.

After chatting with some people from Mario kart and FF2, I know that they would also be fine with this rule as a lot of people are on these servers are there to try hard or have fun and when the two meet in the level it leads to some form of language abuse that can't always be dealt with because I personally don't speak any other languages other than a little French. So if this was a rule to be considered being implemented then I am all for it.

Edit: Maybe add a poll?

 

[EvoWarrior5]

https://www.panda-community.com/threads/should-it-be-a-rule-to-speak-english-mostly.374/

This is how that rule came about. As you can see I suggested it for both voice and chat, but when people thought it would be better to only do it in the voice I was fine with that. When I say "people" I mean Danny. Wonder what his stance on this issue is now.

I don't mind it if people speak a foreign language in the chat so much as you guys do apparently. I would have no problem with it being added to the rule, but I wouldn't have a problem with preserving the status quo either. No vote from me.

Adding a poll.

 

[inu]

https://www.panda-community.com/threads/should-it-be-a-rule-to-speak-english-mostly.374/

This is how that rule came about. As you can see I suggested it for both voice and chat, but when people thought it would be better to only do it in the voice I was fine with that. When I say "people" I mean Danny. Wonder what his stance on this issue is now.

I don't mind it if people speak a foreign language in the chat so much as you guys do apparently. I would have no problem with it being added to the rule, but I wouldn't have a problem with preserving the status quo either. No vote from me.

Adding a poll.

I really see no reason to vote 'No' but as you wish.

 

[Hisu]

dm_duel gets a lot of people from Italy, Hungary, France, Czech, etc; they all speak their locale. I don't like it, but I also see it's not a big deal: if you want to insult someone in the language they don't understand, I say full steam ahead, 'cause the point of insult is to get the target to get your message, which is, clearly, not the case here. I can understand the reasoning about teamwork, though, hence I vote yes — but only if the ruling will affect the servers that rely on player communication a lot.

So, yes, to tighten the screws about language is a sensible initiative, but only with proper application. It shouldn't affect dm_duel, mlg, 2fort, hightower, surf and other kinds of tdm/foolaround kind of maps.

 

[Noodl]

I don't see a reason to tighten such a rule, but each to their own.

I personally think that everyone should be allowed to communicate as they wish in their own language. Most speak English anyway, but in the rare occasion they can, it may be easier for them. If they're shouting abuse in a different language, that's a little different, a difference I don't think is worth restricting other languages.

 

[inu]

I don't see a reason to tighten such a rule, but each to their own.

I personally think that everyone should be allowed to communicate as they wish in their own language. Most speak English anyway, but in the rare occasion they can, it may be easier for them. If they're shouting abuse in a different language, that's a little different, a difference I don't think is worth restricting other languages.

I highly disagree with any form of freedom if it means we can not possibly enforce the rules we set upon the server.

That's like saying anyone who can swear and insult in a language the admin does not understand is free from specific server rules. There should be no exception. Abrasive language is abrasive language, whether someone is offended or not. I already mentioned this in the player report about the boob spray.
If we are only punishing people once somebody is offended, we have failed as admins.

 

[Supreme]

I second this for dodgeball.

 

[Noodl]

I highly disagree with any form of freedom if it means we can not possibly enforce the rules we set upon the server.

That's like saying anyone who can swear and insult in a language the admin does not understand is free from specific server rules. There should be no exception. Abrasive language is abrasive language, whether someone is offended or not. I already mentioned this in the player report about the boob spray.
If we are only punishing people once somebody is offended, we have failed as admins.

I see no problem with having to tab into translate and copypasta, since it can be pretty obvious when someone is trying to insult in their own language.

^Never experienced this on dodgeball.

 

[Kah]

Then just put it as a server specific rule?

 

[inu]

I see no problem with having to tab into translate and copypasta, since it can be pretty obvious when someone is trying to insult in their own language.

^Never experienced this on dodgeball.

Please note that this stems entirely from my experiences on Hightower and War3

 

[metsän henki]

Well, sometimes is really hard to help players, who are getting insults from others on own language. Well we could to use google translate, but most of time google translate is translating wrongly.

But coin's other side. It is easier to our palyers to communicat to each others. Everybody doesnt have perfect english, especially young players ( i know that they not should play tf, but actually we cant do anything for that), they cant communicate in english, or they have really, really bad english. So they can communicate on their own language.

So i am not sure what we should to do, it is 50/50, do we want really lost more players, who get gagged from writing own language? Or do we want really friendly community?

Well, what i thinked what we should to do, its not neccessary to make rule for speaking own language on textchat but its migth to help us to help our players

 

[inu]

Well, sometimes is really hard to help players, who are getting insults from others on own language. Well we could to use google translate, but most of time google translate is translating wrongly.

But coin's other side. It is easier to our palyers to communicat to each others. Everybody doesnt have perfect english, especially young players ( i know that they not should play tf, but actually we cant do anything for that), they cant communicate in english, or they have really, really bad english. So they can communicate on their own language.

So i am not sure what we should to do, it is 50/50, do we want really lost more players, who get gagged from writing own language? Or do we want really friendly community?

Well, what i thinked what we should to do, its not neccessary to make rule for speaking own language on textchat but its migth to help us to help our players

I am sure we all cry for days and nights over losing the 1% that are completely unable to communicate in english and did not add anything to the experience any way.

If you take a pile of shit and plate gold around it you have a golden pile of shit, if you want the pure gold you need to toss the shit out first. I don't see why we as staff and our players should have to suffer because Vladimir feels like talking russian today. I for one will not be keeping a translator open when I want to play videogames.

This is literally the best way for both sides.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

I am sure we all cry for days and nights over losing the 1% that are completely unable to communicate in english and did not add anything to the experience any way.

If you take a pile of shit and plate gold around it you have a golden pile of shit, if you want the pure gold you need to toss the shit out first. I don't see why we as staff and our players should have to suffer because Vladimir feels like talking russian today. I for one will not be keeping a translator open when I want to play videogames.

This is literally the best way for both sides.

Speaking of gold, this post was just that in all its purity. "Vladimir feels like talking Russian today", rofl

 

[EvoWarrior5]

15:57 - _inu: i don't see why the majority should suffer for the minority
15:57 - EvoWarrior5: There is a difference between suffer and tolerate, though
15:58 - _inu: tolerating something is usually surpressing suffering
15:58 - EvoWarrior5: What is suffering to you is acceptance to others
15:58 - _inu: show me those others and we'll talk
15:58 - _inu: i am sure nobody appreciates russian in chat
15:58 - EvoWarrior5: I didn't say appreciate
15:59 - EvoWarrior5: I'm generally fine with people speaking their own language
15:59 - _inu: oh and remind me to call every staff member who voted no when someone on hightower is speaking a foreign languag
15:59 - _inu: i'll let them translate and punish
15:59 - _inu: srsly tho
15:59 - _inu: who plays with google translator?
16:00 - _inu: especially on a fast server like hightower
16:00 - EvoWarrior5: I only consult google translate when I expect that someone is insulting
16:00 - EvoWarrior5: e.g. when I just punished someone and I see a foreign sentence with admin in it
16:01 - EvoWarrior5: I sure as hell won't do it all the time
16:01 - EvoWarrior5: If someone speaks in russian and it's insulting, let the people who are offended report to me and I'll investigate it
16:01 - EvoWarrior5: if they dont report they dont get help
16:01 - EvoWarrior5: simple as that
16:01 - _inu: and for what? lol
16:01 - _inu: what's their gain from it?
16:01 - _inu: what's anyone's gain from it?
16:02 - EvoWarrior5: why should the ones who want to speak their own language have to suffer because others cannot report? Basically your argument inverted
16:02 - _inu: i would not object this if we gained anything of value as a compromise
16:02 - _inu: because they can use steam, skype and so on to communicate
16:02 - EvoWarrior5: Some cultural authenticity, perhaps. Some freedom of using the language you wish
16:03 - EvoWarrior5: They couldn't use steam with people on the server they don't have in their list
16:03 - EvoWarrior5: You'd make them go out of their way
16:03 - _inu: fuck them
16:03 - EvoWarrior5: Okay when did I start arguing in favour of the no camp
16:03 - EvoWarrior5: See what you drive people to?
16:03 - _inu: me?
16:03 - _inu: i drive people to discussion, as always
16:04 - _inu: i still don't see why our servers have to be the cold war refugee camp
16:05 - EvoWarrior5: I'll just be posting pieces of this chat in the thread so people can see the arguments floating out there
16:05 - EvoWarrior5: You okay with that?
16:05 - _inu: if you post the cold war refugee camp part, yes
16:05 - EvoWarrior5: will do

Just putting this out there so people can see the arguments from both sides.

After thinking about it a bit more, I might actually change my vote to a no. I will have to see how things go.

 

[Solid]

I just remembered the best part about not being an admin anymore.

voice_enable 0
hud_saytext_time 0

Most laid back pubbing experience one can get.

 

[Matth]

Can I suggest something? Because, well, this could be too much restrictive in my opinion. AND, you can't make comparison between voice and text chat, really... Text chat is completely less problematic than voice one.
If you really want, you can allow not only English in text chat, but only ALL Romance Languages + English.
You know, guys, most of us are European. And, more or less, Romance Languages can be understood. Reading them in text chat is different than reading a (for example) Russian sentence, you know. (nothing against Russians, for example, but it's fact of understanding at least some what people write in text chat).
Romance Languages (French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese...+ English) could be the only allowed in text chat.
The fact of German language? Well, if you want add also this one.
It's not racism/ discrimination/ whatever you want to call him, but it's realism: our community is of European mould. I'm ag
against this limit.

Anyway, if I can say this, the problem is not really text chat, Inu: there are many and many other problems to think about. Making limits to text chat is very bad. The problem is SPAM itself, not using "strange" languages.
Discussing about languages is quite silly, really... The only problem is the Spam, as I said (which can be in all the languages you want, also English... MAINLY English).

And, at least in the whole experience I have of being Admin, NOBODY has cared of languages in text chat (maybe just 1/100 people complained about Russian/Arabic characters, but 100% sure about European languages, that nobody cared of them so much).