Declined [JB] Make Swinging Melee AFK (1 Viewer)

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Howdy all! Another entry in my conquest to make small changes that create a more friendly environment for both new and old players.

The change is simple. Make swinging melee AFK.
You might say, 'well yeah that is AFK by definition' and you would be right! However on Panda ever since the AFM change, we have considered swinging melee specifically not AFK, which I find to be arbitrary and new player hostile.

"1a: Terms/shortcuts
AFK stands for “away from keyboard.” If a Warden tells you to AFK freeze he wants you to remain still. However you may otherwise look around using your mouse unless told to face a certain direction. Taunting is considered AFK as long as the taunt loops without a natural ending. Swinging your melee is not considered AFK."

By definition, swinging your melee only uses your mouse, just as freelooking does. By all accounts, they should both be permitted for AFK.
For me the problem ensues, as many things do, with trigger happy blus. The same motivation for the original AFM change.
Point hungry blus are quick to kill new players who, by the definition of AFK, are AFK but were swinging their melee.
Just as with AFM, I believe this creates a toxic environment for new players, potentially losing them that critical first round of gameplay and causing them to leave Panda.
New red players familiar to jailbreak but not our specific rules feel cheated when they get shot for something they know is AFK. Even I personally have been shot for swinging my melee by tabbing back into the game while otherwise AFK.
If you find reds swinging their melees annoying, keep in mind warden can always just give the order to restrict that.
Nothing is lost with this change and what we gain is another check to toxicity and more inclusivity for new players.

Here is my proposed change;
1a: Terms/shortcuts
AFK stands for “away from keyboard.” If a Warden tells you to AFK freeze he wants you to remain still. However you may otherwise look around using your mouse unless told to face a certain direction. Taunting is considered AFK as long as the taunt loops without a natural ending. Swinging your melee is not considered AFK.

To

1a: Terms/shortcuts
AFK stands for “away from keyboard.” If a Warden tells you to AFK freeze he wants you to remain still. However you may otherwise look around using your mouse unless told to face a certain direction. Taunting is considered AFK as long as the taunt loops without a natural ending.

(That's it, just the last sentence deleted.)

TLDR; I feel it's a relic of the past that we ought to have patched up with the AFM change years back to reduce toxicity and welcome new players.

 

[Expired]

b…b…but I like point farming…

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

Oh god, you are gonna encourage people to endlessly swing their frying pans...NOOOOOOOOO!!

 

[Random Gamer]

but how else are we post to get kills for like prop hunt now?

 

[PFD1]

the afm removal was a good enough step up to not make it as difficult for new players or even little mistakes like moving your head 4 inches

i dont see how this will make it easier for them to understand when they also do non-afk taunts or crouch most the time, we cant strip away everything from this order beacuse they cant understand why they keep getting killed

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

the afm removal was a good enough step up to not make it as difficult for new players or even little mistakes like moving your head 4 inches

i dont see how this will make it easier for them to understand when they also do non-afk taunts or crouch most the time, we cant strip away everything from this order beacuse they cant understand why they keep getting killed

Both of what you mentioned are NOT AFK by definition.
Swinging melee uses your mouse, both of the above use your keyboard.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Looking at the original AFM change thread here; https://www.panda-community.com/threads/jb-remove-afm-from-the-afk-freeze-order.31012/#post-145789 I don't know where swinging melee even became not AFK. I scoured all the previously 'Completed' JB changes since then and came up dry on the topic.
For all intents and purposes, swinging melee should have always been AFK.

In said thread Jkouts states this;
"The amount of times I've seen new players fill the chat with their complaints that they never moved and were killed for it since they did not know that AFM was implied with AFK is baffling. This will help new players get used to panda more easily..."

I believe this also applies to this suggestion. I have seen many new players complain when they are killed despite never moving, because they did not know swinging melee was not considered AFK on Panda. Not every new player will immediately read the server rules, and for said new players that is fine given they go on Red to learn the rules. A new player being AFK by definition sitting out a ten minute round because a Blu wanted points entirely goes against Panda's ethos and shouldn't even be a thing as is.

And I already responded to a reply above from PFD, but yes do not slippery slope this. Taunting and crouching both use your KEYBOARD which is by definition NOT AFK.
This is not one change leading to another, this is clarifying and correcting a mistake that never should have existed in our current ruleset.

 

[Mehgend]

Both of what you mentioned are NOT AFK by definition.
Swinging melee uses your mouse, both of the above use your keyboard.

I am not about to have a suggestion that is about AFK = keyboard and AFM = mouse. That type of stuff not being here is why I played on panda to begin with. I'm fine the way it is. Don't need this type of slop on my server.

The "AFK freeze AFM" mistake archetype is mostly dead on panda, but on the semi-regular off chance someone does pull that order, it will be mad confusing for them to understand that you have to restrict melee swining by saying "no swinging melee", but you CANT restrict free looking. No AFM orders or anything. Only the one about swinging melee can be ordered.

By the time the server stops collectively screaming over mic that AFM isnt a thing and then explains what orders are allowed, a significant chunk of time will pass that I would rather not waste. Just keep it as it is imo.

It's just easier to say "you cant restrict freelooking" and call it a day. I swear this is a complete non-issue that does not need to be changed at all. Just adding orders for no real reason.


Also, would this include melee weapon / gas passer projectiles? Thats a mouse movement, but you would have to order that every round in order to avoid it. When I warden I don't usually give projectile restricitons because saying "AFK Freeze" does the job just fine". I don't want to have to add more orders to my list just because people can't contain their left mouse button for a minute at a time. Not needed at all.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

I am not about to have a suggestion that is about AFK = keyboard and AFM = mouse. That type of stuff not being here is why I played on panda to begin with. I'm fine the way it is. Don't need this type of slop on my server.

These are definitions of terms, I have no idea what that has to do with slop.

The "AFK freeze AFM" mistake archetype is mostly dead on panda, but on the semi-regular off chance someone does pull that order, it will be mad confusing for them to understand that you have to restrict melee swining by saying "no swinging melee", but you CANT restrict free looking. No AFM orders or anything. Only the one about swinging melee can be ordered.

AFM is strictly not allowed, however you can order reds to look a specific direction, just as you can order them not to swing their melee. It is more confusing to new Red players they can look with their mouse but not swing their melee, both of which are AFK.

By the time the server stops collectively screaming over mic that AFM isnt a thing and then explains what orders are allowed, a significant chunk of time will pass that I would rather not waste. Just keep it as it is imo.

It is explained by saying AFM is not a thing on this server. That easy.

It's just easier to say "you cant restrict freelooking" and call it a day. I swear this is a complete non-issue that does not need to be changed at all. Just adding orders for no real reason.

I only made the suggestion because I have seen the effects in action. Players left and will leave the server because of terrible first impressions.

Also, would this include melee weapon / gas passer projectiles? Thats a mouse movement, but you would have to order that every round in order to avoid it. When I warden I don't usually give projectile restricitons because saying "AFK Freeze" does the job just fine". I don't want to have to add more orders to my list just because people can't contain their left mouse button for a minute at a time. Not needed at all.

This is one detraction that is valid. Alt firing with a melee is AFK by definition just as Primary fire is. So yes, wardens would have to restrict projectiles, which many already do. And of course, rebel status is KOS if a scout lands a projectile.

 

[jcal]

If we made this an actual rule I feel like new players would get confused why they got killed for swinging their melee. I think it should be its own order instead of being implied on afking to avoid confusion for players

 

[Stevencat]

Swingg on that thang

 

[Mehgend]

Upon further discussion, this would more prominently put players in the position to say "no swining melee weapons" at 9:45 and kill a player at 1:50 for swinging their melee.

No thanks. Id rather people ujst tell the red team to AFK freeze if I need people to stop swining their melee.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

If we made this an actual rule I feel like new players would get confused why they got killed for swinging their melee. I think it should be its own order instead of being implied on afking to avoid confusion for players

Jcal that's the status quo...
Yes means they won't be killed unless told not to swing their melees before hand

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

Upon further discussion, this would more prominently put players in the position to say "no swining melee weapons" at 9:45 and kill a player at 1:50 for swinging their melee.

No thanks. Id rather people ujst tell the red team to AFK freeze if I need people to stop swining their melee.

Wardens can already do this, so moot point

 

[Mehgend]

Wardens can already do this, so moot point

The "no swinging melee weapon" order is basically never given. This change would completely remove the ability to deny swining melee/projectiles without giving the no projectiles/swinging melee order by simply giving the AFK freeze order. Meaning if for whatever reason, you wanted to specifically prevent swining melee, you HAVE to give this order that you would then also HAVE to override with another order. Similar to no tauning is now, but far more tedious to play with because people swing melee weapons all the time. Even more than taunting, and even on accident (far more than taunting).

You are looking way too deep into a player that would have to come into the game KNOWING what AFM is, but not knowing that Panda doesn't use it, AND happen to swing their melee on an AFK order. That almost never happens! And when it does happen, all you have to do is just EXPLAIN IT!

If someone would get so butthurt that they leave the server over dying by swinging their melee, they would leave the instant they hit a baiter and become KOS for it.

 

[styraxic]

idk if im missing something, but why is it important that reds do not swing their melee when afk?

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

You can still give the order "don't swing your melee". If anything, this just means I have to hear even more orders at the start of the round alongside "medics no healing, spy's have sappers out, etc, etc"

I don't really support this suggestion purely because I don't like hearing the earful of orders at the start of rounds. Though I don't care as much if it passes.

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

View attachment 37511
The "no swinging melee weapon" order is basically never given. This change would completely remove the ability to deny swining melee/projectiles without giving the no projectiles/swinging melee order by simply giving the AFK freeze order. Meaning if for whatever reason, you wanted to specifically prevent swining melee, you HAVE to give this order that you would then also HAVE to override with another order.

Could always just say "no swinging your melee on the yellow line/insert place here", or reallow it later yeah. Its a problem not at all exclusive to the discussion at hand.

 

[Ninja scout]

Nooo what about my points..

 

[Bananawastaken]

Yeah I’m down for this, I think we should gradually adjust afk to its literal meaning.

Rn it’s kind of weird, being able to freelook and swing would feel way better in play.