Declined [JB] A newly defined minigame: "Mingle" (1 Viewer)

[Cowboy]

It's why I recommended FF to go on when cell doors close and off when they open.

This would simply not work. It would be impossible for guards to count players in a reliable play without it being unfair. Counting individuals in the cells will take time and there isnt a way for a warden to check all the rooms all at once so players who have their cells checked last will have a disadvantage due to them having to stay alive for longer with ff being on. People will just be griefed nonstop.

If its during the phase in which they are seeking a cell to get into, they atleast have some sort of way to maneuver around and have counterplay against said demoman with a skullcutter. If they are trapped with them then thats out the window.

 

[KyePerson]

This would simply not work. It would be impossible for guards to count players in a reliable play without it being unfair. Counting individuals in the cells will take time and there isnt a way for a warden to check all the rooms all at once so players who have their cells checked last will have a disadvantage due to them having to stay alive for longer with ff being on. People will just be griefed nonstop.

You don't need to keep ff on the whole time, you could do like 5-10 seconds of ff after cells close, just enough to give reds a chance to fight for their survival.

If its during the phase in which they are seeking a cell to get into, they atleast have some sort of way to maneuver around and have counterplay against said demoman with a skullcutter. If they are trapped with them then thats out the window.

If a skullcutter demo kills reds in their cell then they probably die due to lack of required reds. Should disincentivize greifing since it's a losing strategy. Where as the method of turning on ff prior to cells closing is basically just a free for all for as long as cells are open. Witling down reds to end the minigame as fast as possible is a winning strategy and there's no real incentive not to do that unless the warden gives unfairly short time windows to enter a cell by.

Basically do we want this to be mini-meatgrinder or line wars.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

Out of curiosity, why would this minigame not be eligible as an LR?

 

[_Black]

I have never played these games before.

 

[Kron]

Out of curiosity, why would this minigame not be eligible as an LR?

I think the thought process behind it was to make it purely as a cell wars alternate originally, though I think the LR aspect of it is being explored in the more recent replies.

With that being said, best way in my opinion of doing this minigame with FF would be to only turn on FF once everyone is in cells with an appropriate warning, otherwise this effectively just turns to meatgrinder mixed with line wars which is just unfun. Details can be figured out in test runs of this minigame/LR once people get more experience with them.

If a skullcutter demo kills reds in their cell then they probably die due to lack of required reds. Should disincentivize greifing since it's a losing strategy. Where as the method of turning on ff prior to cells closing is basically just a free for all for as long as cells are open. Witling down reds to end the minigame as fast as possible is a winning strategy and there's no real incentive not to do that unless the warden gives unfairly short time windows to enter a cell by.

Basically do we want this to be mini-meatgrinder or line wars.

I'm not exactly sure how it is mini-meatgrinder with the restriction of 2-5 reds per cell? I mean once FF is turned on in cells it becomes more like a hybrid between pokemon and cell wars depending on how many people are there.

 

[Cowboy]

Added a poll and removed the LR restriction due to feedback.

 

[Bananawastaken]

For the people voting yes, please think about these points:
-Imagine explaining this to someone on the fly

Once the players have been given a number, the warden may turn on Friendly-fire until their given timelimit, after which ff must be turned off once cell doors close. If there are less or more players than the called number in a cell, everyone within that cell is KOS. If a player leaves the cell after the timelimit with the correct amount of prisoners at the time-limit, only the player who left the cell will be KOS. The warden may only call a number between 2 and 5 and the warden must choose a number that is achievable and should avoid using numbers that could cause a failround. This minigame can no longer be played if there are less than 7 prisoners alive.

-Think about how few jb minigames require teamwork as a core component of it, there is not a single jb minigame where you do not have at least SOME element of agency, with this your left to the mercy of your fellow reds.
-Think about coordination among reds, most reds do not have a microphone.
-Think about the idea of "coordinated friendly fire", as if reds dont just perma kill everyone till the last one is remaining

Imo this is incredibly gimmicky and you people need to understand the nuances of having this game played, sure it sounds fun but really think about how it'll work in game.

 

[Kron]

For the people voting yes, please think about these points:
-Imagine explaining this to someone on the fly

-Think about how few jb minigames require teamwork as a core component of it, there is not a single jb minigame where you do not have at least SOME element of agency, with this your left to the mercy of your fellow reds.
-Think about coordination among reds, most reds do not have a microphone.
-Think about the idea of "coordinated friendly fire", as if reds dont just perma kill everyone till the last one is remaining

Imo this is incredibly gimmicky and you people need to understand the nuances of having this game played, sure it sounds fun but really think about how it'll work in game.

Having tested out this minigame as a warden it is incredibly effective and if you do the same strategy as you would for trivia, where you say "now we will have a practice round" and explain what would have happened after said round I feel as though the confusion would be completely gone. The explanation portion that is highlighted as a concern is simply not a problem with the solution provided in that test round.

I do have a few couple of questions for you in regards to your points:

1. Why does the coordination amongst reds matter as well as microphones for them?
2. I'm not really sure how friendly fire would be an issue if activated only while in cells? Wardens could stipulate that there must be X amount of players in each cell by the time FF is done, and if that is not followed the entire cell would be KOS.

I understand that this may cause some failrounds but if given time wardens can adjust and this can be fine tuned in practice with the theory being adjusted later. The only way any of this can really be proven is by trying it out in game.

 

[crubf]

there is way too much shit tied in to this, setting it up sounds rough. requiring a minigame prior sounds like it'd incentivize playing closest minigames to cells for like 2 seconds which people already meme to death because they hate it

still think this btw + when we think about reds working together with ff on think about "ff no killing" lrs, there are a number of people who will kill purely for the funny

-Think about how few jb minigames require teamwork as a core component of it

not even that, im thinking about how it is the entire point of the game for reds to be the last man standing lol

 

[crubf]

lol oh i missed that this is now lr eligible. the only people who are going to get this shit are the people who read the forums which is frankly a small fraction of players, im not very ecstatic for rounds where some reg has to play telephone with a randomed warden on how to play this

 

[BritishMafia]

I'm still not sure I understand it after reading, and I do agree with what banana said. This would be a nightmare to explain to people who aren't chronically on jb, let alone the forums.

 

[Eagle_attack]

I'm still not sure I understand it after reading, and I do agree with what banana said. This would be a nightmare to explain to people who aren't chronically on jb, let alone the forums.

people learn from watching others

 

[Dr. Meatloaf]

-Think about how few jb minigames require teamwork as a core component of it, there is not a single jb minigame where you do not have at least SOME element of agency, with this your left to the mercy of your fellow reds.
-Think about coordination among reds, most reds do not have a microphone.
-Think about the idea of "coordinated friendly fire", as if reds dont just perma kill everyone till the last one is remaining

I’ll admit that there’s some degree of teamwork here which is somewhat unusual, but I don’t really think this is a problem. IMO this is basically just arena or hunger games with a bit of a twist, and it’s not really as bad as you’re making it out to be. As to your point about agency… we have 9square 9crush and die or don’t die which all entirely rob the red team of agency. The fact that this game is based on a person being lucky and having somewhat competent teammates doesn’t really make a difference to me. (Also consider games like mecanix or mass connect 4 which do that too.) At the same time if FF is on you do have some agency by killing people who walk in. Idk maybe I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.

I don’t think this game is actually confusing at all for the reds. It might be a bit harder (though not impossible) for someone on BLU to understand, if so don’t do the game, but for someone on red it’s actually just boils down to 2 orders.

(Start Mingle) “Ok guys we’re playing mingle. By [time] there must be [2-5] people per cell. FF is going on in 3… 2… 1…”

(End mingle) “Ok guys mingle is now done. Anyone not in cells is now KOS.”

Then just kill anyone who is not in a cell with the proper number.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

The only issue I have with this minigame idea is it becoming an official minigame if this suggestions passes.

Picture this: Brand new kid warden, doesn’t read the forums cause he doesn’t know it exists, and the LR is mingle day. Now he has to hear out the rules from 10 different reds trying to explain it, ends up mfking accidentally because he doesn’t know how it works.

I feel like this game is *overly* complicated in a sense for new players with all the details they have to be aware of.

I feel like we should advocate for simplicity, not because it’s basic and boring, but because it at least helps out newer players to not become overwhelmed.

However, if someone wants to play the minigame and knows what to do, let them do so! I’m only fearful for whenever this minigame gets chosen for LR and new players who don’t understand it cause failrounds.

This could also be that the minigame would become mainstream and popular to the point where everyone understands how to play it. Though, that might require time.

 

[Kron]

The only issue I have with this minigame idea is it becoming an official minigame if this suggestions passes.

Picture this: Brand new kid warden, doesn’t read the forums cause he doesn’t know it exists, and the LR is mingle day. Now he has to hear out the rules from 10 different reds trying to explain it, ends up mfking accidentally because he doesn’t know how it works.

I feel like this game is *overly* complicated in a sense for new players with all the details they have to be aware of.

I feel like we should advocate for simplicity, not because it’s basic and boring, but because it at least helps out newer players to not become overwhelmed.

However, if someone wants to play the minigame and knows what to do, let them do so! I’m only fearful for whenever this minigame gets chosen for LR and new players who don’t understand it cause failrounds.

This could also be that the minigame would become mainstream and popular to the point where everyone understands how to play it. Though, that might require time.

This hypothetical of a new warden happens with quite literally every minigame, including HG, simon says, and HNS- for that reason this argument doesn't hold up well.

Will there be confusion amongst new people? Yes, however that again happens with nearly every custom LR that we allow. It is quite common during the hours that I am on in the evening to need to explain pokemon day or HG at least once or twice to a warden or blue that doesn't know what it is. I could make the argument that pokemon day is too complicated because new players commonly don't understand it.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

This hypothetical of a new warden happens with quite literally every minigame, including HG, simon says, and HNS- for that reason this argument doesn't hold up well.

I agree. However, those concepts are simply quick to grasp unlike this one.

Hide and Seek - the name itself is understandable / a childrens game

Simon Says - a literal childrens game

Hunger Games - the only one i can see your point considering not all might know what Hunger Games is by first glance.

The name Mingle, I don’t have a clue as to what to even do with that name alone. Those minigames at least are easy to understand because of their names.

 

[Kron]

I agree. However, those concepts are simply quick to grasp unlike this one.

Hide and Seek - the name itself is understandable / a childrens game

Simon Says - a literal childrens game

Hunger Games - the only one i can see your point considering not all might know what Hunger Games is by first glance.

The name Mingle, I don’t have a clue as to what to even do with that name alone. Those minigames at least are easy to understand because of their names.

Ohhhh Okay I get what you're getting at here. Yes, I completely agree that the name doesn't really give any sort of connotations as to what the game might be. I'll still go as far to say that in regards to pokemon day it is of similar complexity levels though.

 

[CutePyro0]

The only issue I have with this minigame idea is it becoming an official minigame if this suggestions passes.

Picture this: Brand new kid warden, doesn’t read the forums cause he doesn’t know it exists, and the LR is mingle day. Now he has to hear out the rules from 10 different reds trying to explain it, ends up mfking accidentally because he doesn’t know how it works.

I feel like this game is *overly* complicated in a sense for new players with all the details they have to be aware of.

I feel like we should advocate for simplicity, not because it’s basic and boring, but because it at least helps out newer players to not become overwhelmed.

However, if someone wants to play the minigame and knows what to do, let them do so! I’m only fearful for whenever this minigame gets chosen for LR and new players who don’t understand it cause failrounds.

This could also be that the minigame would become mainstream and popular to the point where everyone understands how to play it. Though, that might require time.

we could allow it to be deniable just how we can for lr's that are for example "warden must say uwu after every order" after all the next round a blue who does know how to do the lr can then just redo it

 

[zevs]

IS DA SQUID GAMES!! SQUID GAMES!!! IVE PLAYED THSESE GAMES BEFORE SQUID GAMES!!
i love suqid gamse

 

[Expired]

I'VE PLAYED THIS MINIGAME BEFORE