Declined mav's admin application (1 Viewer)

[mav]

nickname: mav

age: 20+

steam_id: STEAM_0:1:24743957

timezone: GMT - usually, beyond 18:00h

server: #04 dodgeball - visiting other servers is an option but unlikely to happen

mic: yes

past experience: i'd say i have more then enough, but the value of this argument is almost meaningless - wrote a couple plugins for sourcemod and configured/helped configure tf2 servers years ago, but haven't touched it ever since so, very rusty

- Why should we choose you to be part of our team?
honestly, i couldn't care less about why should i be chosen or not - i offer my help in behalf of the community, and that is saying a lot.

- Finally, please briefly explain how you would do your job, e.g. a general overview of your policies and punishments.
- maintain a friendly environment in the server through tolerant moderation
- enforce server rules in a less strict way (regards to context):

• try to take into account players behaviour history whenever possible
  
• listen to players claims to better judge what is the most suitable action to apply when necessary
• warning for sporadic non-persistent misbehaved players
• immediate mute/gag for sporadic persistent misbehaved players
• after warning, short ban times for non-persistent misbehaved players
• after short ban, long ban times for persistent misbehaved players

 

[Patmosphere]

Player gameMe's profile: https://gameme.panda-community.com/playerinfo/1166935
The player meets the required playtime of 3 days on the server where he's applying
Player's chat: https://gameme.panda-community.com/player_histories/chat/1166935
Player's previous bans: https://bans.panda-community.com/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_0:1:24743957&Submit=Search
Player's previous common blocks: https://bans.panda-community.com/index.php?p=commslist&searchText=STEAM_0:1:24743957&Submit=Search
Player's sessions: https://gameme.panda-community.com/player_histories/sessions/1166935
[Personal opinion] Admin application a bit short tho. Anyway, Good luck
@DeadSworn @Lighty @Nitro4D

 

[Lighty]

The app is very short and looking at it, it seems you aren't too interested considering you didn't put that much time into the app itself.
Looking at your policies and punishments you didn't specify any ban/comm block times nor did you specify what punishment is received for what, you only talk about behavior? As for being a db admin being less strict isn't helpful as players will exploit it by doing it at intervals that you forget and/or when you aren't on the server.

Your chatlog mostly consists of !hug and "xD", you don't seem to enforce the rules at all. If I also remember correctly, you used to steal quite a bit so I'm quite skeptical about you since you also just suddenly appeared out of the blue after quite a long inactivity.
@TryHard I'd like to know your opinion about this player.

For the reasons stated above, I don't think you're ready for an admin position, my vote is going to stay NEUTRAL.

 

[mav]

The app is very short and looking at it, it seems you aren't too interested considering you didn't put that much time into the app itself.
Looking at your policies and punishments you didn't specify any ban/comm block times nor did you specify what punishment is received for what, you only talk about behavior? As for being a db admin being less strict isn't helpful as players will exploit it by doing it at intervals that you forget and/or when you aren't on the server.

Your chatlog mostly consists of !hug and "xD", you don't seem to enforce the rules at all. If I also remember correctly, you used to steal quite a bit so I'm quite skeptical about you since you also just suddenly appeared out of the blue after quite a long inactivity.
@TryHard I'd like to know your opinion about this player.

For the reasons stated above, I don't think you're ready for an admin position, my vote is going to stay NEUTRAL.

Yes, i agree that the application is "short" in the sense that you might be a bureaucrat and might want a more formal and extended version to say exactly the same in long sentences. I prefer it short and direct to the point.
Regardless, if there is something you would like/want to see further, just state it as so, don't just say it is short.

Regarding my policies, when i say behavior, i am talking in the general sense of the word. Seriously, i don't know or care about your definition or behavior but i share with you mine so that you can understand me this time: behavior: what you do, say and express to other persons, in the context of a player in the server, how you play, talk and react to other players actions while in the server - all and everything that is done is subject for judgement/criticism/punishment if done in disrespect to the rules of the server.

As of being a db admin, being less strict isn't helpful? I couldn't disagree more. It shouldn't be necessary in the first place to enforce rules. Sure, there will always be misbehaved players who cross the rules of a server, but if you promote strict enforcement of the rules, it is more likely to be retaliated by the misbehaved players when in absence of an admin in the server.

When you mention that my chat log is this or that and show no rules enforcement, you couldn't be more pointless then you have been in the sense that i have no obligation, as a player, to enforce rules at all. I can actually argue that i do ask people to not steal if they steal. Obviously, i have no means to enforce the rules, and asking is useless in the majority of times, since you are playing with people who don't even know the rules, since they don't bother knowing them at all. But if you say that using the command /call to call an admin who CAN enforce the rules isn't enough for you to prove that i try to have the rules being respected, than, i say you have no idea what you're talking about, because i do it all the time, and you should know better.

And, as you remember well, yes, i used to steal rarely, when a rocket comes at me, and honestly, i don't regret that at all. Makes no sense to let yourself die when a rocket not meant for you just goes straight at you and you have no time to move away instead of just reflecting it. And those, are the times i steal - to avoid getting killed by stray rockets.

Lastly, what does it matter that i appeared out of nowhere after a long absence time? I mean, am i obligated now to play all the time? Again, pointless argument.

As a matter of fact, i am not much interested in being an admin - my application comes from a friend request who asked me to apply. But if, by the slightest chance i would be chosen to be one, i would be dedicated in doing my part. Honestly, it's as i said in the application - i couldn't care less about why should i be chosen or not, that is exactly because i don't care if i am or not chosen to be an admin. But since i have applied, is because i, if chosen, WILL do my part, not just as an admin but mostly as an active community member, which is something i haven't been much before.

I take this chance to say just this: if there are any questions that need to be answered and i haven't done so in the application, just go ahead and ask... It is not now the most suitable place to do so in here, but this is a forum, and this is a thread which is meant for that exact purpose.

 

[Cryptic]

As of being a db admin, being less strict isn't helpful? I couldn't disagree more. It shouldn't be necessary in the first place to enforce rules. Sure, there will always be misbehaved players who cross the rules of a server, but if you promote strict enforcement of the rules, it is more likely to be retaliated by the misbehaved players when in absence of an admin in the server.

Congrats, pal! I wasn't aware that there was someone capable of making such an asinine conclusion. If enforcing the rules isn't necessary then having admins, or rules itself, would be useless. A community without rules or admins would be chaotic. If you're hoping to find a community without rules or admins, I would suggest looking at BlackWonder. They'll find your ideology delightful.

When you mention that my chat log is this or that and show no rules enforcement, you couldn't be more pointless then you have been in the sense that i have no obligation, as a player, to enforce rules at all. I can actually argue that i do ask people to not steal if they steal. Obviously, i have no means to enforce the rules, and asking is useless in the majority of times, since you are playing with people who don't even know the rules, since they don't bother knowing them at all. But if you say that using the command /call to call an admin who CAN enforce the rules isn't enough for you to prove that i try to have the rules being respected, than, i say you have no idea what you're talking about, because i do it all the time, and you should know better.

If you're not fond of enforcing the rules now, then your application is irrelevant. The key responsibility of an admin is to enforce and regulate the servers. I find it ironic how you ask people not to steal and /call, 'cause you find it unnecessary to enforce rules.

And, as you remember well, yes, i used to steal rarely, when a rocket comes at me, and honestly, i don't regret that at all. Makes no sense to let yourself die when a rocket not meant for you just goes straight at you and you have no time to move away instead of just reflecting it. And those, are the times i steal - to avoid getting killed by stray rockets.

Nice! The generic "it would've killed me" excuse. I've played you before, and you stole my rockets countless of times, even though they weren't directly going towards you. It was even more pathetic, 'cause you felt the need to steal, when there was only 3 players on our team at the time.

As a matter of fact, i am not much interested in being an admin - my application comes from a friend request who asked me to apply. But if, by the slightest chance i would be chosen to be one, i would be dedicated in doing my part.

You must've been really bored, and/or have a lot of time in your hands, for you to blow of time on an application that you already know will have a slight chance of being accepted. At least we can both agree on one thing: the low chance of you becoming admin, 'cause it's a -1 for me.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

Yes, i agree that the application is "short" in the sense that you might be a bureaucrat and might want a more formal and extended version to say exactly the same in long sentences. I prefer it short and direct to the point.
Regardless, if there is something you would like/want to see further, just state it as so, don't just say it is short.

The app does look concise (more positive word than 'short'); the amount of lines is not the issue. What can be considered problematic is answers such as the following:

past experience: i'd say i have more then enough, but the value of this argument is almost meaningless - wrote a couple plugins for sourcemod and configured/helped configure tf2 servers years ago, but haven't touched it ever since so, very rusty

At this stage, the staff cannot really afford to care what you would "say" is or is not "more than enough". When you lay out an application, you put yourself subject to scrutiny; staying non-specific in a question that is pretty important is not something that helps anyone decide on your suitability.

Regarding my policies, when i say behavior, i am talking in the general sense of the word. Seriously, i don't know or care about your definition or behavior but i share with you mine so that you can understand me this time: behavior: what you do, say and express to other persons, in the context of a player in the server, how you play, talk and react to other players actions while in the server - all and everything that is done is subject for judgement/criticism/punishment if done in disrespect to the rules of the server.

Overall I like what you wrote in that section, but there are definitely things which could be more specific. Who could guess what you mean by "short ban" or "long ban"? It sounds nice at face value, short bans for first offenses and long bans for repeated offenses - sounds legit. But the community wants an indication of what you consider suitable times. Also, which types of punishments you would apply to which offenses is also telling - some people, for instance, state that they would ban for insults, which is not how things are done here.

This section is meant to gauge to what degree the applicant's vision on administration complies with community standards, so that the staff and mentors know what they are dealing with. Sometimes it can reveal a complete lack of experience or even common sense. Sometimes admins nitpick about what is in there too much, as it is not about getting everything right, it is only an indication. Nevertheless, it does have the added value described above, and your answer lacked in specificity.

As of being a db admin, being less strict isn't helpful? I couldn't disagree more. It shouldn't be necessary in the first place to enforce rules. Sure, there will always be misbehaved players who cross the rules of a server, but if you promote strict enforcement of the rules, it is more likely to be retaliated by the misbehaved players when in absence of an admin in the server.

Usually I am all for a tolerant administration, but in a server like DB you simply cannot afford it. There are often so many rulebreakers that treating them all nicely is going to waste too much time and allow too much rulebreaking to happen. This would be massively frustrating for the other players who are actually trying to have a good time while conforming to the rules. The system which I think most admins still adhere to now was largely developed by me, as I felt that it would be most efficient in dealing with rulebreakers strictly enough so that other players will not be bothered by them, but giving them a lot of room to change their behaviour.

I understand that people who jump from server to server often do not want to bother reading rules, I do, but if a player still does not adhere to the rules after:

(1) a text box which forces you to agree to the rules;
(2) a slay with an accompanying chat message elaborating on what the player did wrong;
(3) usually another slay with the same message

Then they are simply not 'fit' to play in the servers and should be banned for a while.

When you mention that my chat log is this or that and show no rules enforcement, you couldn't be more pointless then you have been in the sense that i have no obligation, as a player, to enforce rules at all. I can actually argue that i do ask people to not steal if they steal. Obviously, i have no means to enforce the rules, and asking is useless in the majority of times, since you are playing with people who don't even know the rules, since they don't bother knowing them at all. But if you say that using the command /call to call an admin who CAN enforce the rules isn't enough for you to prove that i try to have the rules being respected, than, i say you have no idea what you're talking about, because i do it all the time, and you should know better.

(...)

Lastly, what does it matter that i appeared out of nowhere after a long absence time? I mean, am i obligated now to play all the time? Again, pointless argument.

As a matter of fact, i am not much interested in being an admin - my application comes from a friend request who asked me to apply. But if, by the slightest chance i would be chosen to be one, i would be dedicated in doing my part. Honestly, it's as i said in the application - i couldn't care less about why should i be chosen or not, that is exactly because i don't care if i am or not chosen to be an admin. But since i have applied, is because i, if chosen, WILL do my part, not just as an admin but mostly as an active community member, which is something i haven't been much before.

(...)

This is the main problem here. All of the things you addressed (having no proper answer in the "Why should we choose you" section; not enforcing rules in the chat; an extended period of absence; also no forum activity) are indicators of motivation. This is an important factor to take into account when judging an applicant, as the community does not want to waste time on someone who is likely to bail out quickly, go inactive, or is less likely to administrate to adequate standards in general. It is not mandatory to attempt to enforce the rules through the chat, and to some extent I agree with what you said about the chat vs. using the Call function, but it is still something that is always addressed as it is important for people to judge whether someone seems motivated. Neither your application nor your response really display an attitude which I would consider 'motivated'.

 

[MercyOnly]

- Why should we choose you to be part of our team?
honestly, i couldn't care less about why should i be chosen or not - i offer my help in behalf of the community, and that is saying a lot.

Just putting my 2 cents here in what already looks like a cesspool of arrogance.

Your answer to that specific question is quite pretentious, don't you think? You posting an application has done slightly more harm than good so far and as far as I know, every person who's applied so far, failure or not, has "offered" their help like you are attempting to and it means jackshit when there are far more qualified and friendly people available for the position you're applying.

That's just simply not good enough of a reason and the effort you've put into this application is something I would've written in a solid 2 minutes if I was lazy enough.

 

[mav]

Congrats, pal! I wasn't aware that there was someone capable of making such an asinine conclusion. If enforcing the rules isn't necessary then having admins, or rules itself, would be useless. A community without rules or admins would be chaotic. If you're hoping to find a community without rules or admins, I would suggest looking at BlackWonder. They'll find your ideology delightful.

If you're not fond of enforcing the rules now, then your application is irrelevant. The key responsibility of an admin is to enforce and regulate the servers. I find it ironic how you ask people not to steal and /call, 'cause you find it unnecessary to enforce rules.

Nice! The generic "it would've killed me" excuse. I've played you before, and you stole my rockets countless of times, even though they weren't directly going towards you. It was even more pathetic, 'cause you felt the need to steal, when there was only 3 players on our team at the time.

You must've been really bored, and/or have a lot of time in your hands, for you to blow of time on an application that you already know will have a slight chance of being accepted. At least we can both agree on one thing: the low chance of you becoming admin, 'cause it's a -1 for me.

Congrats pal! I have never said that i wouldn't enforce rules. I only said, i'd be LESS strict. Plus, i take it that i mention something like "player behaviour history"? I mean that i wouldn't be LESS strict with persistent misbehaviour. And you deserve no answer to all else you said, absolutely pointless.

 

[mav]

The app does look concise (more positive word than 'short'); the amount of lines is not the issue. What can be considered problematic is answers such as the following:

At this stage, the staff cannot really afford to care what you would "say" is or is not "more than enough". When you lay out an application, you put yourself subject to scrutiny; staying non-specific in a question that is pretty important is not something that helps anyone decide on your suitability.

Overall I like what you wrote in that section, but there are definitely things which could be more specific. Who could guess what you mean by "short ban" or "long ban"? It sounds nice at face value, short bans for first offenses and long bans for repeated offenses - sounds legit. But the community wants an indication of what you consider suitable times. Also, which types of punishments you would apply to which offenses is also telling - some people, for instance, state that they would ban for insults, which is not how things are done here.

This section is meant to gauge to what degree the applicant's vision on administration complies with community standards, so that the staff and mentors know what they are dealing with. Sometimes it can reveal a complete lack of experience or even common sense. Sometimes admins nitpick about what is in there too much, as it is not about getting everything right, it is only an indication. Nevertheless, it does have the added value described above, and your answer lacked in specificity.

Usually I am all for a tolerant administration, but in a server like DB you simply cannot afford it. There are often so many rulebreakers that treating them all nicely is going to waste too much time and allow too much rulebreaking to happen. This would be massively frustrating for the other players who are actually trying to have a good time while conforming to the rules. The system which I think most admins still adhere to now was largely developed by me, as I felt that it would be most efficient in dealing with rulebreakers strictly enough so that other players will not be bothered by them, but giving them a lot of room to change their behaviour.

I understand that people who jump from server to server often do not want to bother reading rules, I do, but if a player still does not adhere to the rules after:

(1) a text box which forces you to agree to the rules;
(2) a slay with an accompanying chat message elaborating on what the player did wrong;
(3) usually another slay with the same message

Then they are simply not 'fit' to play in the servers and should be banned for a while.

This is the main problem here. All of the things you addressed (having no proper answer in the "Why should we choose you" section; not enforcing rules in the chat; an extended period of absence; also no forum activity) are indicators of motivation. This is an important factor to take into account when judging an applicant, as the community does not want to waste time on someone who is likely to bail out quickly, go inactive, or is less likely to administrate to adequate standards in general. It is not mandatory to attempt to enforce the rules through the chat, and to some extent I agree with what you said about the chat vs. using the Call function, but it is still something that is always addressed as it is important for people to judge whether someone seems motivated. Neither your application nor your response really display an attitude which I would consider 'motivated'.

Honestly, i see your answer as a truly constructive and informative answer which actually helps to the point where i have lacked true information, and i answer with the same honesty as you seem to have - i lacked the interest in becoming an admin... Since the application, and from the reactions i have seen, I have grown a lot more interested in being part of the community. Why? Simply because i see more maturity in a few reactions of some, which make me believe i'd do well in the community. Yet, i agree with Hawwis in the fact that i harmed myself more than anything else to this point.
Without wasting more time, i ask if there is anything else i can do to rectify my application? It might be to late at this point but, I make this question because i agree with everything you said EvoWarrior5. If not, well, just decline/remove the application and stop wasting everyone's time, makes no sense anymore.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

I do think that the rusty start has stained your prospects to the point where there is not much chance for this application to succeed. Most people would have kept on arguing stubbornly, though, so I am positively surprised by your latest response. A next application may have a better chance of succeeding if you can express your motivation more clearly - it also helps if the admins will get to know you better in that time.

This is all coming from someone who has not seen your in-server behaviour, so I have no view on the allegations that you stole rockets. The fact that both admins which have posted here state it happened is worrying. People who had punishments on record have gone on to become admins here before multiple times, so it's not irrecoverable, but the staff would need to see that improvement first. Right now it does not look good.

 

[mav]

I do think that the rusty start has stained your prospects to the point where there is not much chance for this application to succeed. Most people would have kept on arguing stubbornly, though, so I am positively surprised by your latest response. A next application may have a better chance of succeeding if you can express your motivation more clearly - it also helps if the admins will get to know you better in that time.

This is all coming from someone who has not seen your in-server behaviour, so I have no view on the allegations that you stole rockets. The fact that both admins which have posted here state it happened is worrying. People who had punishments on record have gone on to become admins here before multiple times, so it's not irrecoverable, but the staff would need to see that improvement first. Right now it does not look good.

Agree and was as i thought. I might consider a second application, although it is highly unlikely to happen, for the same points you stated now. Plus, I'm mostly demotivated to actually wanting to be part of the community at this time given the awful start. But also because of the obnoxious reactions i received. Mostly, i experienced misjudgment, misunderstanding and doubt from those who reacted to the application, who labeled it from a simple expression. One can assume the worst if someone says something that mostly could express a negative attitude, but in doubt, the least expected would be to make things clear first before rushing into false assumptions. I expected that, and not having that expectation filled, was very disappointing.

About the rockets steals, i already explained and i didn't hide it: i steal rockets, and most likely would keep doing so. But i state again that i rarely do it for the reasons i explained before. Not trying to excuse, it is simpler than that: i try not to die from stray rockets. But if it serves of consolation, I'll stop doing it, although, that changes nothing.

In the end, i agree that: my application simply sucked, again, because i really didn't care. I mean, i created the account in the same moment i applied - i thought to myself that my chances of being picked were already extremely diminished from there on, given that nobody even knows me. But, I wasn't being pretentious, arrogant nor cocky. Simply didn't care how it looked, how bad it could sound, nor how much it could hurt susceptibility and, for this, i apologize. I only thought about being straight and clear, which obviously was a miss in the application.

Finally, and at this point, being an admin is something i don't want in this community. Not for the time being. But i thank you all for the time wasted on this

Good luck!

 

[plEase]

Well to be honest Your application is short but that's fine. I will say same thing what everyone said above you don't enforce rules much and seems to be less interested to be an admin. It is true that people tend to misunderstand someone But any ways i would say you still have time to show your positiveness and dedication but

Finally, and at this point, being an admin is something i don't want in this community. Not for the time being. But i thank you all for the time wasted on this

This is something which shows your lack of interest i guess. As evo warrior said above

This is the main problem here. All of the things you addressed (having no proper answer in the "Why should we choose you" section; not enforcing rules in the chat; an extended period of absence; also no forum activity) are indicators of motivation. This is an important factor to take into account when judging an applicant, as the community does not want to waste time on someone who is likely to bail out quickly, go inactive, or is less likely to administrate to adequate standards in general. It is not mandatory to attempt to enforce the rules through the chat, and to some extent I agree with what you said about the chat vs. using the Call function, but it is still something that is always addressed as it is important for people to judge whether someone seems motivated. Neither your application nor your response really display an attitude which I would consider 'motivated'.

. Sorry but my vote here is -1

 

[EvoWarrior5]

He almost literally retracted his app; votes are redundant at this point.

 

[Lighty]

Closed and moved