Awaiting Feedback [FF2]Changes and nerfs to the Backstab and Market Gardener (1 Viewer)

[Manvid]

I'm rather curious and, in a biased opinion, frustrated of how the backstab damage works.
However I would rather like that the backstab and market gardeners would deal the same kind of damage as the backstabs, since I hold them on a similar skill level, as well as risk factor.

But I am making this a multi choice because I'd also want to know what other players of the server think about these two mechanics, so feedback about your choices will be appreciated.

And another note regarding the recent changes to the mantreads and concerns about the gardeners - I am rather confident in saying that skilled trolldiers are still able to deal a hefty sum of damage, even with gunboats. So please take that in consideration before casting your vote, even if you'll have the chance to change it afterwards.

 

[Heavy]

Heavy thinks backstab should be higher than market Gardener, on the sole reason that is the Spy's only means of dealing damage without a Krit Revolver,
Soldier on the other hand has a rocket launcher and, risk is far lesser for a soldier as they can just rocket jump in, miss, then get out.
Whereas the spy doesn't have access to such movement option unless they use the deadringer, and if you are running any of the other watches, little baby boss man can predict where you go whilst, if you similarly run any other rocket launcher as soldier they will all get you out of that situation, besides perhaps the beggars as it's rocket jump would be delayed.

Though if baby boss man is being ganged up on and being smelted in the red team mass, then risk is the same. Additionally very few spies actually use the other watches so the risk gap between backstab and market garden is lessened so keeping Backstabs 1500 and making Market Gardens deal 1000 damage seem to be fair. As the 500 damage difference can be made up with by Soldier using their primary, unless they are using Rocket Jumper which the trade off should be damage for mobility.

 

[Manvid]

Heavy thinks backstab should be higher than market Gardener, on the sole reason that is the Spy's only means of dealing damage without a Krit Revolver,
Soldier on the other hand has a rocket launcher and, risk is far lesser for a soldier as they can just rocket jump in, miss, then get out.
Whereas the spy doesn't have access to such movement option unless they use the deadringer, and if you are running any of the other watches, little baby boss man can predict where you go whilst, if you similarly run any other rocket launcher as soldier they will all get you out of that situation, besides perhaps the beggars as it's rocket jump would be delayed.

Though if baby boss man is being ganged up on and being smelted in the red team mass, then risk is the same. Additionally very few spies actually use the other watches so the risk gap between backstab and market garden is lessened so keeping Backstabs 1500 and making Market Gardens deal 1000 damage seem to be fair. As the 500 damage difference can be made up with by Soldier using their primary, unless they are using Rocket Jumper which the trade off should be damage for mobility.

Right the current situation is that the dead ringer is just a straight upgrade, so no matter what people will be using it, hence why I believe the risk factor is the same.
Not to mention the finicky hitbox of the back making it highly questionable when the backstabs happen, especially with higher ping.

And as for the rocket jumper, it's in a rather peculiar position now, giving damage resistance for some reason, which could lead to trolldiers surviving a hit after hitting or missing the garden. Can't confirm how much it takes away, but it just might be enough to get out.

 

[Heavy]

Right the current situation is that the dead ringer is just a straight upgrade, so no matter what people will be using it, hence why I believe the risk factor is the same.
Not to mention the finicky hitbox of the back making it highly questionable when the backstabs happen, especially with higher ping.

And as for the rocket jumper, it's in a rather peculiar position now, giving damage resistance for some reason, which could lead to trolldiers surviving a hit after hitting or missing the garden. Can't confirm how much it takes away, but it just might be enough to get out.

Heavy has acknowledged the fact the deadringer is the only watch spies use, but there remains a risk factor gap between trolldier and spy as the trolldier immediately leaves the immediate facility of the Boss upon rocket jumping but, Spy still has to run away like itty bitty baby man, this still places the spy in risk in the competent boss which can estimate where the spy went to.

With regard to your point of backstab hitboxes, yes it is a problem which makes backstabs more often then they should not, but melee boxes in general suffer from being finicky, the backstab box is 180 degree angle roughly, where as you can market Garden regardless of your position from the boss as long as you are still in the air, so backstabs and market gardens in general are weird in what counts and doesn't count as backstab or market garden. Furthermore this is a 2 way matter as the baby boss man also uses primarily melee, so spy can be punished immensely with hitboxes as much as he can exploit it.

As for Rocket Jumper resistances, I did not know about it before, but should it be the case then the risk gap between trolldier and spy is expanded.