Awaiting Feedback [JB] Define what we consider cheating vs. exploiting in minigames (2 Viewers)

[Nergal Nergalton]

This is something that has been on my mind for a while. As per both the current gameserver rules and Jailbreak rules, exploiting is not allowed and bannable, but cheating is if warden doesn't prohibit.

The problem is how gray this whole thing is. There's been many arguments in the past over whether or not something, such as an unorthodox shortcut or trick in a minigame, counts as either cheating or exploiting. This is why I propose to redefine and give a hard definition to what's cheating and what's exploiting.

How controversial this may be among the playerbase I don't know, but I personally believe it may be beneficial to redefine any sort of unorthodox shortcut or trick in a minigame, no matter how major or minor, as cheating and not exploiting -- and thus, not something worth warning or banning over. Some examples of these that have had arguments on whether or not it's cheating or exploiting, some more than others:
- The strafe race skip on Hopjb
- Getting ahead of the Sandvich on Jailfort's Steady Pace
- The karts skip on Mlcastle
- Hiding in the corner on Mlcastle's Hexagon Heat.
- Launching your kart high into the air on Spacejail's Karts
- Hiding in the corner in Oranger's Thru to avoid getting killed by the motivator (although I can't remember if the newest version fixed this)
I believe this because, to me, there is a big difference between these minigame "exploits" vs. exploits that are actually disruptive to the server. These minigame "exploits" I listed? All the warden really needs to do is counter this by the saying "no cheating" in the same way they would before sending the REDs into Climb on Hopjb so they don't just go into the water and to the finish. If REDs do it? They're KOS when they finish, simple as that. This sets it apart from actual exploits that are disruptive to the server and have no way for any non-admin player to counter it. Examples of these type of exploits:
- Ammo glitching
- The contractor lethal taunt exploit
- Sentry pointfarming as BLU Engineer
- Anything that can crash the server
- Anything that just delays and stalls the round, for example two Medics healing themselves in a (non-instakill) trap on a Deathrun where they can heal each other faster than the trap is damaging them.
- The exploit on Downtown that lets BLUs get infinite Uber (a hypothetical example, if Downtown were to be added)
- The Jailfort bridge exploit

But this trick shortcut lets a RED skip too much of the course! Nobody will ever be able to beat them! It's completely unfair!: So is going through the water on Hopjb's Climb. You're guaranteed to beat anyone actually in climb by going through the water. If you're warden, just say "no cheating" before the minigame starts. Simple as that.
The mapmaker didn't intend for this to be able to be performed! It's an oversight!: I'm pretty sure Buns didn't think people would just run through the water and cheat through Hopjb's Climb when he created it.

If we redefine the rules this way, we can draw a hard line between minigame cheats vs. actual disruptive exploiting. In my eyes, it feels a bit harsh to have to ban those for something the warden can prevent with "no cheating." Exploits that are bannable should be those that have no way to counter.

 

[Musisphaera]

Agreeing with that it should be defined because I dislike hearing different stories to what is exploiting and cheating.
The only question I have is will this be decided by the admins only or will the community participate in deciding what is cheating/exploiting?
Nonetheless, voting yes.

 

[Khalew]

Would people still have their exploiting bans in their records or something if they used those "exploits"

 

[PistolPoppinSince02]

I believe this because, to me, there is a big difference between these minigame "exploits" vs. exploits that are actually disruptive to the server. These minigame "exploits" I listed? All the warden really needs to do is counter this by the saying "no cheating" in the same way they would before sending the REDs into Climb on Hopjb so they don't just go into the water and to the finish. If REDs do it? They're KOS when they finish, simple as that.

The problem with this line of logic is that making something KOS will not stop people from doing it.

ML Karts is a premiere example. Sure you can make the exploit KOS, but it fundamentally ruins the one-time game.
Meaning the game is unplayable for the entire server at the cost of one person becoming KOS.

Cheats that outright end a minigame or circumvent the design/intention of the map are what we ought to define as an exploit.

Hop Strafe Race? Exploit. Skipping laps is clearly not what is intended of the minigame.
Getting ahead of the jailfort steady pace sandvich? Exploit. Circumventing the 'Steady Pace' part of 'Steady Pace'.
Hiding in Hexagon Heat's Corner? Superfluous lol, not in the active playing area of the minigame. Exploit ig because obviously you are supposed to fall there.
And so on and so forth.

Cheating would be like Hop Climb Water.
Still in the playable area of the game, and still going through climb.
Going through the water doesn't require any sort of trick or timing, it's just going another way within the playable area.
Instead of starting in a particular way like breaking ML Karts, or staying at the start for a specific time like Hop Strafe.

It's also why I never liked the conversation here on Panda, cause it's always been 'case by case' and it always will be.
Unless all cheating is banned, it will stay as it is.
My definition is pretty much the definition we've been loosely working with, but what is and isn't and exploit will always depend on who you ask.

Best case scenario is the Admin Team just does a vote on each and every "exploit", and then post results in the rule section of JB.
Under banned minigame list, tack on an "Exploit List". If it's mentioned there, we consider it exploiting, and the playerbase has a REFERENCE to use.
Instead of "X admin said it was fine, but Y admin said it's exploiting", they have a publicly available list, just like with any other rule.