Declined [JB] It Is Time, I Want Miami Gone (1 Viewer)

[PistolPoppinSince02]

I've been putting this one off for far too long now because I know it will ruffle some feathers.

I and many others, want this map gone for many many reasons. For a divisive map such as this, I do want to go over my personal reasons for this maps removal.

Firstly, the good;

1. Miami visually looks amazing.
2. The vibe and theming of the map is phenomenal.
3. Many minigames on the map are very unique, some of which are exclusive to Miami.
4. Common minigames featured on many other maps are given a special Miami spin (GunDodge,Race,Volleyball,etc)
5. Custom guns and upgrades are fun, albeit not balanced in the slightest. Balance isn't the point, they are fun!

Now for the bad;

1. The layout is gigantic with far too much cover. There are too many turns and avenues to the point where rebelling is far too easy.
2. Due to how easy it is to initially rebel, rounds will often end in manhunts that kill the pace of the game.
3. Half of the map is almost entirely unexplored. Since Blus expect Reds to run and often cannot prevent them from doing so, Blus very rarely deign to go beyond the spawning side of the mall.

And the awful;

1. Miami is consistently a server killer. Someone could compile the data, but even anecdotally we all know this to be true. A 20+ player server can quickly dwindle to below ten or even nothing when Miami is chosen.
2. People do not want to play Blu on this map. The lack of want to be on Blu leads to tiny, or non-existent, Blu teams. Few Blus means boring rounds for Reds, both those trying to earn LR and those rebelling.
3. The Money System. The Money System (or just M.S from now on) breaks this map in half. Miami being a server killer is because of the M.S. The M.S encourages Reds to delay as long as possible to collect or gamble as much money as possible. Freedays are chosen and used to money farm and break the balance of the remainder of the map. Conversely Blus are encouraged to be more trigger happy to collect Red's money. Rather than letting off small things, Blus are incentivized to kill every Red that slips up. The M.S creates a very punishing consequence for dying. Reds and Blus alike will do whatever they can to weasel their way out of DRs to save their money as death divides their money by a hefty chunk. The M.S therein causes many toxic dynamics completely alien to any other map in rotation, applying so much pressure otherwise absent in JB. Were the M.S gone, Miami would be a flawed (as seen above) but pretty good map in my opinion. The M.S encourages behavior that I believe is counter to Panda's ethos and actively diminishes players enjoyment while on the map.

Much of what was stated here is of course my opinion, however Miami killing the server consistently is a known fact. Yes we can always rtv the map, but at what point do we just do away with it. If a version is made sans the money system, I will be all on board to reintroduce the map. Just as we do not have Galaxy in rotation while we wait for that map to be fixed, neither too should we have Miami in it's current state.

Lotta reading here, so thank you for making it to the end. Had to do the topic justice, and like I said, its a thought I've been holding off on for at least three weeks now.

 

[Expired]

Even though I love unicake (district remake is a top 5 map) and the sheer amount of effort he put into miami, it just doesn’t play well as a jb map and high quality aesthetics can’t save it from that. It wouldn’t be my first choice for a removal suggestion compared to other maps we have in rotation like crossroads and albany, but it does need to go, at least for now.

 

[crubf]

voted no

 

[Yomca]

No I need money!!

 

[BunniWitch]

honestly Yomca response here is a perfect example of why i think miami plays poorly
people care more about money instead of having good rounds on the map

 

[BritishMafia]

Miami somehow turns jb into a completely different game with the money system. It causes guards to be far more aggressive, and whenever someone dies its always "QUICK GET THE MONEY!"
It becomes more about getting some stupid useless yacht then actually playing jb, and its overly complicated layout doesnt help. I feel like people only keep this map for chainsaw massacre...

 

[AC Seaweed]

nah
this map unironically is some of the most fun ive ever had on jb
that and it is an experience i dont think other maps can replicate

 

[Nergal Nergalton]

I'll be honest and say Miami isn't the best map, but I still enjoy it. I don't mind the money system, however I do agree it's pretty painful you lose so much upon death (like 80% I think), and have to pay a decent amount just to slightly increase the amount of money you keep.

Truth be told this may be because I genuinely haven't seen the money system cause as many problems with rulebreaking as a lot of you think, like, almost never. If rulebreaking occurs on Miami it usually never has anything to do with the money, and some wardens recently have been swift in putting down money-grabbing DRs.

 

[Empress_Kyuuna]

Y'all already know my reason as to why I'm voting no to Miami being removed. Call me biased, but I refuse to see Miami be removed when we still have Crossroad, Volcano and XMF on rotation. Get these out first.

 

[Koduturott]

This map is not one of the maps that we should get rid of. It has a unique playstyle and yes, it does cause delay but so do other maps. (area17, famouz, volcano etc). Also checking the logs of miami, it is sort of a 30/70 if miami will kill the server or no.

 

[ItsNotCalassic]

has anyone here reached out to the map creator?

Don’t quote me, but I recall he was removing the money system entirely for a newer version of the map.

 

[Kron]

As someone that isn't the biggest fan of Miami there are several maps I would rather see removed than this one- the minigames are unique, the money system is as well and even though I'm not the most fond of it I can still enjoy the map.

 

[scootyman]

 

[screechy]

As a known shitty map creator, I will stick with my guns and say that all maps, unless they are absolutely abysmal, should remain in rotation. Let the players decide what they want to play. A server killer is only a server killer as long as the map doesn't get RTV'd/is currently being played. The map is definitively flawed on a core level, not unlike my maps, but it's something different. It forces this community to work beyond the regular boring rotation of HopJB and like three other, admittedly good, maps that incentivize boredom but in a sinister, more long-term way that slowly sucks the life out of the community. You say it always gets RTV'd, but people vote the map in the first place for a reason.

Since jailbreak isn't exactly a vibrant gamemode these days and TF2 isn't exactly enticing new players by the thousands anymore, I think it's best we keep more maps than we remove, even if some are shitty. If a round is bad or a map doesn't play well, at least it's different. That was my psychology in making all of my maps; it's just something different than the usual box layout with the 15 bog-standard minigames. I'm voting to keep it on my principles and to support fellow mapmakers who poured so much love into this map. Remember guys, we shouldn't be trying to make jailbreak some perfected and formulaic gamemode, that's not what the community was built off of. Shitty maps, chaos, poor round times, bad minigames, etc., are what this community and its roots are formed from just as much as the inverse of all of those. The same can be said for all other gamemode communities like deathrun or TTT.

 

[AC Seaweed]

As a known shitty map creator, I will stick with my guns and say that all maps, unless they are absolutely abysmal, should remain in rotation. Let the players decide what they want to play. A server killer is only a server killer as long as the map doesn't get RTV'd/is currently being played. The map is definitively flawed on a core level, not unlike my maps, but it's something different. It forces this community to work beyond the regular boring rotation of HopJB and like three other, admittedly good, maps that incentivize boredom but in a sinister, more long-term way that slowly sucks the life out of the community. You say it always gets RTV'd, but people vote the map in the first place for a reason.

Since jailbreak isn't exactly a vibrant gamemode these days and TF2 isn't exactly enticing new players by the thousands anymore, I think it's best we keep more maps than we remove, even if some are shitty. If a round is bad or a map doesn't play well, at least it's different. That was my psychology in making all of my maps; it's just something different than the usual box layout with the 15 bog-standard minigames. I'm voting to keep it on my principles and to support fellow mapmakers who poured so much love into this map. Remember guys, we shouldn't be trying to make jailbreak some perfected and formulaic gamemode, that's not what the community was built off of. Shitty maps, chaos, poor round times, bad minigames, etc., are what this community and its roots are formed from just as much as the inverse of all of those. The same can be said for all other gamemode communities like deathrun or TTT.

no way screechy returns from the dead to defend miami of all things

 

[TiPhoenix]

Miami is just... Not fun imo... Whenever I see that map pop up I immediately get ready to drop that RTV in chat. I haven't played miami much, due to: A. it getting RTV'd pretty quick usually. or B. my outright refusal to play it... I've never enjoyed it. The size itself isn't a problem either it's the sheer amount of cover or props that people can just hide in/behind.

 

[young man ⛈]

Finally somebody spoke up about it

 

[young man ⛈]

As a known shitty map creator, I will stick with my guns and say that all maps, unless they are absolutely abysmal, should remain in rotation. Let the players decide what they want to play. A server killer is only a server killer as long as the map doesn't get RTV'd/is currently being played. The map is definitively flawed on a core level, not unlike my maps, but it's something different. It forces this community to work beyond the regular boring rotation of HopJB and like three other, admittedly good, maps that incentivize boredom but in a sinister, more long-term way that slowly sucks the life out of the community. You say it always gets RTV'd, but people vote the map in the first place for a reason.

Since jailbreak isn't exactly a vibrant gamemode these days and TF2 isn't exactly enticing new players by the thousands anymore, I think it's best we keep more maps than we remove, even if some are shitty. If a round is bad or a map doesn't play well, at least it's different. That was my psychology in making all of my maps; it's just something different than the usual box layout with the 15 bog-standard minigames. I'm voting to keep it on my principles and to support fellow mapmakers who poured so much love into this map. Remember guys, we shouldn't be trying to make jailbreak some perfected and formulaic gamemode, that's not what the community was built off of. Shitty maps, chaos, poor round times, bad minigames, etc., are what this community and its roots are formed from just as much as the inverse of all of those. The same can be said for all other gamemode communities like deathrun or TTT.

it only gets voted for because some goof (usually kyunna) nominates it first thing after map change and everybody mindlessly taps 4 to get the map vote to go away not realizing what map they are actually voting for

 

[PFD1]

the map has good music so thats cool

 

[Expired]

has anyone here reached out to the map creator?

Don’t quote me, but I recall he was removing the money system entirely for a newer version of the map.

I wouldn't expect a new version of miami to release anytime soon, uni's pretty caught up in his singeplayer map (and sometimes catplanet if he's bored)