Declined VSH #5 | stickybombs (1 Viewer)

[WotanGrimzahn]

Demoman is an interesting and fun class.

You can play:
full melee
with primary weapon, shield and Eyelander
with primary weapon, stickybomb launcher and Eyelander

I would like to discuss Stickybomb Launchers.

This weapon currently has two uses:
1. Camping in the tunnel the whole game
2. Put all mines to any teleport and wait (Nebula, Skyhigh resort etc.)

In my opinion, neither should happen. In my opinion, the best solution is to turn camping -> moving (an alternative to a shield).

Proposal:
- Significantly reduce damage (less camping, more moving).

So camping won't make sense. And Saxton Hale can't lose 4K HP and can't do anything about it.

 

[Spam Goose]

Nobody would use the stickybomb launcher if the damage with reduced by 25% or more, its designed to be camped with and if the hale keeps going where the trap is that's on him. Sticky demo also has barely any escapes (besides the loose cannon or his own stickies) so he is pretty easy to kill too if you know where he is.
With the cave, the hale will probably have to take that hit (or solo rage) and just kill the demo immediately after

 

[WotanGrimzahn]

Nobody would use the stickybomb launcher if the damage with reduced by 25% or more, its designed to be camped with and if the hale keeps going where the trap is that's on him. Sticky demo also has barely any escapes (besides the loose cannon or his own stickies) so he is pretty easy to kill too if you know where he is.
With the cave, the hale will probably have to take that hit (or solo rage) and just kill the demo immediately after

I am talking about a much higher reduction than 25%. As I write, this change will solve many problems. As you write, then the sticky demo would have a chance to escape.

Can you better describe where you see the disadvantages, the problems of this change?

 

[Spam Goose]

I am talking about a much higher reduction than 25%.

Nobody would use the stickybomb launcher if the damage was reduced by 25% or more

As I write, this change will solve many problems. As you write, then the sticky demo would have a chance to escape.

yeah, fix the problem hales keep going into traps and getting punished for the mistake and take away one of demos biggest ways of dealing damage? doesn't sound like solving problems but instead making a class that can already be hard for people to play even weaker

Can you better describe where you see the disadvantages, the problems of this change?

You can play:
full melee
with primary weapon, shield and Eyelander
with primary weapon, stickybomb launcher and Eyelander

with what you said, that means demo would only have 2 reliable good damage builds, and an entire class of his weapons would be terrible.

 

[WotanGrimzahn]

Nobody would use the stickybomb launcher if the damage was reduced by 25% or more

Why not? If the damage is drastically reduced, it means that Demoman will be able to use the weapon to increase his own mobility, which is a great advantage and reason to play it.

...take away one of demos biggest ways of dealing damage? doesn't sound like solving problems but instead making a class that can already be hard for people to play even weaker

If you are a capable player, you are able to deal great damage through the primary weapon and the Eyelander. Personally, I don't think this change would make Demoman weaker, but more fun with more options.

When I played VSH the most a few years ago and I mainly played Demoman, I usually had 2k - 8k dmg without Stickybombs every round.

 

[WotanGrimzahn]

Another option would be not to reduce the damage too much, but reduce damage to self. So Stickybombs could remain relevant in terms of damage, but also mobility.

 

[Jiji]

It really depends on the map. On maps like Skyhigh or Nebula strats like this can be really overpowered, especially since hale really can't do anything about it there. Well on Nebula I rarely see anyone use this strat, but on Skyhigh it's really common and overpowered.

Reducing critical damage on stickybomb launchers could be a solution. Not sure if that's possible, but hey it's just a thought.

Or someone could edit the maps where this strat is abused the most (Nebula, Skyhigh). I wonder if it would be possible to add multiple teleport spots so hale doesn't always teleport back to the same spot after falling off the map? This could be a good solution as well I think.

 

[Loki.]

Imo reducing damage of demo stickies in any way would just not work. The problem are maps like skyhigh which should either be fixed or outright removed.

 

[UberMedicFully]

I cannot agree on nerfing a damage tool for Demo, his Sticky Launchers are designed to be threatening in terms of damage, If we nerf it though, we would need to nerf other weapons from other classes aswell to keep it fair for everybody and not favoriting classes/weapons in any way of.
However, yes it can be painful as a Hale but there are ways to avoid Traps, If you die to them you should be learning from your mistakes.

 

[Spam Goose]

It really depends on the map. On maps like Skyhigh or Nebula strats like this can be really overpowered, especially since hale really can't do anything about it there. Well on Nebula I rarely see anyone use this strat, but on Skyhigh it's really common and overpowered.

Reducing critical damage on stickybomb launchers could be a solution. Not sure if that's possible, but hey it's just a thought.

Or someone could edit the maps where this strat is abused the most (Nebula, Skyhigh). I wonder if it would be possible to add multiple teleport spots so hale doesn't always teleport back to the same spot after falling off the map? This could be a good solution as well I think.

you should be able to make it so stickies cannot stick in certain places (they will roll away until they can stick)

 

[WotanGrimzahn]

I didn't write that I wanted Sticky Demo to be useless. No one has yet commented on the idea that Stickybombs would serve a similar purpose as Rocket Launcher (Soldier) and Detonator (Pyro).

 

[UberMedicFully]

I didn't write that I wanted Sticky Demo to be useless. No one has yet commented on the idea that Stickybombs would serve a similar purpose as Rocket Launcher (Soldier) and Detonator (Pyro).

It already does if you think about that when using the Quickybomb Launcher

 

[WotanGrimzahn]

But compared to the shield, it's terrible. You use it once and you're almost dead ...

 

[UberMedicFully]

But compared to the shield, it's terrible. You use it once and you're almost dead ...

Demoknight but with the Quickybomb launcher is anything else than terrible, managing to get all 4 heads makes u somewhat unstoppable if you know how to survive

 

[Spam Goose]

No one has yet commented on the idea that Stickybombs would serve a similar purpose as Rocket Launcher (Soldier) and Detonator (Pyro).

but the rocket launcher deals good damage while your idea is to turn the sticky bomb launchers into worse quickybomb launchers (and quickybomb into sticky jumper)

I didn't write that I wanted Sticky Demo to be useless.

nerfing the damage by how much your suggesting makes them useless lol

 

[WotanGrimzahn]

Goose, and Detonator deals good damage? I also suggested that possibly the DMG might not be reduced too much, but only the self damage

 

[WotanGrimzahn]

Of course, then the problem with teleports, etc. would not be solved, but it would be an interesting rework

 

[UberMedicFully]

I still disagree, will probably never happen.

 

[WotanGrimzahn]

Uber, I would appreciate if you could write why

 

[UberMedicFully]

As Goose said at some point, useless changes, i dont have to say more.