Completed Specific ff2 map rule (1 Viewer)

[SharpTips]

Hey, I wanted to bring up the idea to add a rule for a specific map (like a mini rule) for vsh_hella_swag.
As most of you know, vsh_hella_swag contains 2 rituals which is required to unlock a mini-game in the map. Once the two rituals are successfully completed ( second ritual requires 1 person in to stand in the middle of the pentagram so he could choose a mini-game), all players will be transported into a mini-game that has been selected.

Event #1: Fall: All players (except the hale) fall down having to dodge any terrain that they might land on until they reach the lowest point successfully without dying. The round ends right after that. (it takes less than 14 seconds)

Event #2: Sweeper: All players except (except the hale) will have to jump over a spinning obstacle, again, it lasts for 40-60 seconds before the event is finished, resulting in the loss of the hale's round.


TO THE POINT: I was explaining all this so people who did not know about would be informed of it + people who don't even play ff2 could land their thoughts about the problem.

Make a rule so that it would forbid: preforming the rituals unless the hale agrees, < It sounds weird, yes, I'm totally with those who think that way, however I need a simple idea of how it is going to look like (the rule, I mean.)

This is just unfun. Imagine a player having his turn playing as the hale, and then the RED team just decides to practically ruin his round by preforming that ritual. (which you cannot even stop since it's easy to preform both ritual under 30 seconds, meanwhile you'll have pyros just pushing you away from the ritual so that you would not be able to interrupt).

Any ideas on how we can make it so that people won't just abuse it to end rounds or to ruin somebody else's experience as the hale?

No poll is needed, this is a simple question.
Should there be a rule like the one I mentioned? If so, how would you write the rule? (Since I wasn't giving a SOLID idea for a rule, it was just a small and basic example)

 

[Kaz]

good rule and all but the map is seldom played (2.35% on eu and .92% on tx) that it would rarely be enforced, even then, the average tf2 gaymer doesnt know about the easter egg
in my experience when playing on the map, it takes lots of dedication to convince five other people to do it, and the boss can easily attack the pentagrams to deter them

 

[Bambi]

This is just unfun. Imagine a player having his turn playing as the hale, and then the RED team just decides to practically ruin his round by preforming that ritual. (which you cannot even stop since it's easy to preform both ritual under 30 seconds, meanwhile you'll have pyros just pushing you away from the ritual so that you would not be able to interrupt).

It takes 6 people to properly do the ritual, and that's not counting the pyros you say would air blast the hale away from the ritual area. Seems like a very unlikely scenario. I have never experienced this become an issue for the Texas ff2 server before. Most bosses would have a good way to counter act this happening anyways. It also should be noted that if pyros are down guarding others in the ritual area, they would be camping which already isn't allowed.

If this was a rule, admins would have to punish alteast a quarter of the server (slay/kick/ban) which I'm not a fan of. If it's becoming a big enough issue, I think the simpler and better solution would just be to remove the map. Its not an extremely popular map like kaz pointed out so I don't think it would hurt to have it removed, but I'd rather it not come to that either.

 

[SharpTips]

good rule and all but the map is seldom played (2.35% on eu and .92% on tx) that it would rarely be enforced, even then, the average tf2 gaymer doesnt know about the easter egg
in my experience when playing on the map, it takes lots of dedication to convince five other people to do it, and the boss can easily attack the pentagrams to deter them

Quite understandable. But here in ff2#13 it is fairly known as all 20 players once decided they want to proceed with the ritual until the map ends. Which was against the hale's agreement. About 60% of them refused to do the ritual and wanted to play normally. But since there were just too many people on the RED team, nothing could be done...


It's like; 5 people doing the first ritual and 5 other REDs are waiting on the 2nd ritual so that they could perform it as quickly as they can.

Also, hella swag is played here once in every 8-12 maps? That's a rough estimation.


And it requires 5. 6 is also okay but 5 is the minimum for both rituals.

 

[SharpTips]

It takes 6 people to properly do the ritual, and that's not counting the pyros you say would air blast the hale away from the ritual area. Seems like a very unlikely scenario. I have never experienced this become an issue for the Texas ff2 server before. Most bosses would have a good way to counter act this happening anyways. It also should be noted that if pyros are down guarding others in the ritual area, they would be camping which already isn't allowed.

If this was a rule, admins would have to punish alteast a quarter of the server (slay/kick/ban) which I'm not a fan of. If it's becoming a big enough issue, I think the simpler and better solution would just be to remove the map. Its not an extremely popular map like kaz pointed out so I don't think it would hurt to have it removed, but I'd rather it not come to that either.

I see the downsides just like you do, and you're absolutely right. Nobody would want to have half the red team slayed because of such thing, but keep in mind that 5 is a really low number and even if there are no pyros, it is still a big mess.

The RED team can do the ritual whenever they want to do they can and already did camp around and waited for the hale to clear the area so that the ritual could be done fast. There's just too many ways to make the hale move away from the pentagram....

Outsmarting the boss. Distraction.. etc.

Telling him he has to go and kill players and therefore cannot camp on the ritual which will force him to do something, which is going to keep him away from the pentagram..)

All that just to ruin a round for the Hale.

 

[SharpTips]

Here's how it would look like based on my many experiences:

At the start of the round all the RED team is rushing to the pentagram.
The boss is waiting there? No problem, the red team ALWAYS have a class that can knockback the boss. Whether it's from sheer damage or from blasts and air blasts alone.


But let's assume that the hale can stand his ground on the pentagram with little to no effort. What then? He can't just stand there all day and people would try to look for a way to perform the ritual...
They can just lure him since he obviously needs to be close to someone to actually kill him. Even if the hale's got a gun. It does not always guarantee that the hale is going to defend the ritual properly





Note that hella swag is on the 11th spot in the map ratios that people are picking.
That means more awareness about the ritual which is what I'm trying to point out.

That while you're right that it may rarely happen in TX, but here it happens quite often to be a problem.

That doesn't mean it always happens!! I'm saying it's simply enough to be a problem.

 

[Bambi]

Quite understandable. But here in ff2#13 it is fairly known as all 20 players once decided they want to proceed with the ritual until the map ends. Which was against the hale's agreement. About 60% of them refused to do the ritual and wanted to play normally. But since there were just too many people on the RED team, nothing could be done...


It's like; 5 people doing the first ritual and 5 other REDs are waiting on the 2nd ritual so that they could perform it as quickly as they can.

There is no realistic way we would punish the entire server for doing this easter egg, that's completely ridiculous.

Also, hella swag is played here once in every 8-12 maps? That's a rough estimation.

Spoiler: Map

Simple math alone would tell you this map is played once every 40+ map vote.

And it requires 5. 6 is also okay but 5 is the minimum for both rituals.

5 people need to stand on each edge of the star. 1 more person needs to stand in the center to actually teleport to the easter egg area.

I see the downsides just like you do, and you're absolutely right. Nobody would want to have half the red team slayed because of such thing, but keep in mind that 5 is a really low number and even if there are no pyros, it is still a big mess.

The RED team can do the ritual whenever they want to do they can and already did camp around and waited for the hale to clear the area so that the ritual could be done fast. There's just too many ways to make the hale move away from the pentagram....

Outsmarting the boss. Distraction.. etc.

Telling him he has to go and kill players and therefore cannot camp on the ritual which will force him to do something, which is going to keep him away from the pentagram..)

All that just to ruin a round for the Hale.

Again, if this is as big of a deal as you think it is. We should just remove the map to save the trouble. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but I really don't see there ever being a rule added against doing the ritual because of the requirements it has.

 

[SharpTips]

There is no realistic way we would punish the entire server for doing this easter egg, that's completely ridiculous.

Spoiler: Map

View attachment 12362

Simple math alone would tell you this map is played once every 40+ map vote.



5 people need to stand on each edge of the star. 1 more person needs to stand in the center to actually teleport to the easter egg area.


Again, if this is as big of a deal as you think it is. We should just remove the map to save the trouble. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but I really don't see there ever being a rule added against doing the ritual because of the requirements it has.

5 People, while 6 is also optional.
Once all 5 are standing on the candles, they can "sprint" to the middle of the pentagram and be teleported. tried it already.

Regardless of the math you did, 8k kills literally shows people are playing there from time to time. That is still a problem. From my own experience, since I play there a lot I see the map being played at least once a day. considering it's 45 min, that is still an issue.

And again, I'll say it once more, if you think adding a rule regarding the ritual is not so good, then I'll have to agree. I said it before, THIS IS a weird thing to do, but what other choice do you see? People play there, and you can clearly see that, but if a rule is not going to be added, then something else will have to be done about it. I'm still unsure of how this could be taken care of, but I'm RAISING this issue on the forum so people might share their ideas of we could do.

With enough dedication we could try to figure something out, otherwise people would take advantage of that.

If none are feeling like this is a problem, then that is ok.
i'm just speaking for those who felt that way in-game. I felt like it was kinda annoying that it has to happen every round, but if ya all are okay with that, then sure thing. Thought you would try to find an alternative at least instead of giving up right away.

 

[SharpTips]

And by "giving up" I don't mean that it is your fault, no. I'm just saying that it would've helped if you had an idea on top of your respected opinion.
Simply deleting a map is not a solution; people enjoy playing there but at the same time they play in a way that is not so fun. Sure, it's fun for the RED, but as for the Hale? :shrugs:

 

[Kaz]

just saying when i was on and the whole server was dedicated to trying the minigames, all i really had to do to stop them was check the pentagrams every so often
if some boss ain't decent enough to simply stop that, then maybe they deserve it. it's especially easy getting into the basement as boss and screwing over the stupid players camping in there tryna do the thing

also on a side note, it *is* however possible to just camp in the secret room once you get teleported, i've done it a couple times and have caused the server to die cuz the boss can't suicide since jumping off the map does minimal damage, and there's no way to reach the room
so i guess that could be a reason to just remove the map

 

[Baka]

In my opinion, the only clear solution is to remove the map from the list, not only from nextmap, but also nominations. Since people are keen on spoiling the fun for others, as well as not even playing the gamemode, there should be no point in picking this map for vsh mode, if anything, they could do this on another server, assuming they have it already.\

for now, until an actual plan is made, pyros airblasting are considered camping, and people trying to activate the minigame are not doing their damage, so just call an admin in, use custom reason on one player that's contributing to it saying "multiple people are trying to activate the minigame" and hopefully one of us will get on and get it resolved.

If anyone wants to add to this, please do.

 

[SharpTips]

In my opinion, the only clear solution is to remove the map from the list, not only from nextmap, but also nominations. Since people are keen on spoiling the fun for others, as well as not even playing the gamemode, there should be no point in picking this map for vsh mode, if anything, they could do this on another server, assuming they have it already.\

for now, until an actual plan is made, pyros airblasting are considered camping, and people trying to activate the minigame are not doing their damage, so just call an admin in, use custom reason on one player that's contributing to it saying "multiple people are trying to activate the minigame" and hopefully one of us will get on and get it resolved.

If anyone wants to add to this, please do.

Again, I'm trying as much as possible to avoid the idea to "remove the map" since some people enjoy playing there.

This whole thread is about trying to go both ways, one way that would still let people enjoy the map itself, and then the other way that would prevent people from abusing the map.

And pyros air blasting is not even the main issue, it was just an example.

I just played vsh hella swag yesterday and when I played as the hale, they were 1 person short from completing the ritual, if I hadn't rushed to the ritual right after the round started it would've been game over.

And when I try to move AWAY from the pentagram to avoid CAMPING as hale, I would just fine myself looking at the red team using that opportunity to rush over towards the 2nd pentagram to complete it.

Many rounds have been ended in a matter of 50 seconds because of that. And let me say this; at the time that all the above happened, we were only 13 players. Imagine it being 15. 17. 23!

So if you have .. let's say... 40% chance of successfully preveting the rituals when roughly 7 people out of the 13 red team members are trying to activate a minigame.

Imagine how these chances would've dropped if 13 out of 23 red team members tried to do the same thing.

The map can be removed, it's fine by me. But it's hard to delete a map and call it a solution... .-.

 

[Nisoria]

It takes 6 people to properly do the ritual, and that's not counting the pyros you say would air blast the hale away from the ritual area. Seems like a very unlikely scenario. I have never experienced this become an issue for the Texas ff2 server before. Most bosses would have a good way to counter act this happening anyways. It also should be noted that if pyros are down guarding others in the ritual area, they would be camping which already isn't allowed.

I completely agree with bambi in order for the ritual to actually go in effect it needs mass devotion from the other players and from what I've seen, this map is rarely played and the only way that you can actually gain the attention of the other players is through voice chat or if they already have knowledge of it.

I also agree that we shouldn't punish 6 people or more players that's a bad appearance to even show, I also agree that if it's causing this much problems we can just remove the map, or call an admin if problems continue to persist. I'm not really saying that the solution to the problem is really to delete the map but if there's no other alternatives I think that's the best option.

but hey that's just my opinion..

 

[SharpTips]

I completely agree with bambi in order for the ritual to actually go in effect it needs mass devotion from the other players and from what I've seen, this map is rarely played and the only way that you can actually gain the attention of the other players is through voice chat or if they already have knowledge of it.

I also agree that we shouldn't punish 6 people or more players that's a bad appearance to even show, I also agree that if it's causing this much problems we can just remove the map, or call an admin if problems continue to persist. I'm not really saying that the solution to the problem is really to delete the map but if there's no other alternatives I think that's the best option.

but hey that's just my opinion..

Yup yup, thank you for sharing your opinion, I'll respect it as always like any other one, I may disagree, but that your point still stands.


Though you are all right, shaping a rule for this exact problem may be a little problematic since there's no solid base for it, we can't just say "Whoever performs the ritual is banned/slayed", this is just out of the question and will never be a real solution.

But assuming there's not gonna be a rule (which is the case, most likely), I would like to see myself not premitting to do it for the sake of "just winning", with or without a rule. Is that possible to do such thing? If not, that is STILL fine by me.

 

[Loli Police]

I wholeheartedly want the rule to be real because one time the people on red wanted to do the mini games so bad that they prevented 4 hales from playing in a row. When you complete the ritual a player is sent to select a minigame and I've also seen a player camp in there and not do damage and run down the game timer for 3 minutes. The only ways I can think of fixing it is either slap the reds doing it and warn them or just remove the ritual from the map entirely by using hammer which wouldn't be hard.

 

[SharpTips]

I wholeheartedly want the rule to be real because one time the people on red wanted to do the mini games so bad that they prevented 4 hales from playing in a row. When you complete the ritual a player is sent to select a minigame and I've also seen a player camp in there and not do damage and run down the game timer for 3 minutes. The only ways I can think of fixing it is either slap the reds doing it and warn them or just remove the ritual from the map entirely by using hammer which wouldn't be hard.

I mean, hella swag is partially played BECAUSE of the mini-games, however, I would totally settle for slapping the reds/warning (without actually punishing them).

 

[Madact]

I've popped up a poll, please vote.

Would also like vsh and ff2 to seperate their opinions so I know if this is for both or just for ff2.

@Matth @Pilon99 @Racer911-1

@Waxel @Monster @Nisoria @TekkitFappit @SharpTips @Loli Police

 

[Racer911-1]

I would just want to have it removed. I dont even understand why it was added in the first place.
It just has very annoying sounds and somewhat of an earrape (even n-words).
Despite having the map a few times i never really got to see these rituals here on VSH so i dont think it would be a problem.
But if the map doesnt get removed then i would agree with adding a rule against these rituals.
Again i never saw them on VSH so i dont think its that problematic

 

[Matth]

I wasn't aware of this problem, I've never seen anybody doing these rituals.
On vsh we almost never play hella swag, and I'm glad of this 'cause I've never liked that map! So ye, as Racer says, I'd be for the direct removal.

 

[SharpTips]

I would just want to have it removed. I dont even understand why it was added in the first place.
It just has very annoying sounds and somewhat of an earrape (even n-words).
Despite having the map a few times i never really got to see these rituals here on VSH so i dont think it would be a problem.
But if the map doesnt get removed then i would agree with adding a rule against these rituals.
Again i never saw them on VSH so i dont think its that problematic

Well, if it does not occur on VSH, then leave it be/remove the map from VSH.

But when it comes to FF2, it's a problem.
I don't want this map to be removed from FF2 just because it is not being played in VSH.